Printable View
OK. I have a norton 4k/8k stone and a DMT extra course stone for lapping. I lap just like I've read how with the grid, and the small circles and the figure 8's and my stones seem to make my arm hair shaving razor into a blunt piece of junk. could the DMT I purchased be convex?
Do you have evidence suggesting that you would have gotten a good edge if the hones had been flat? I mean, are you sure it's something with the hones and not you? Please don't take this the wrong way, I just have no idea what your honing experience is or exactly why what is happening is leading you to the conclusion that your DMT may be convex.
If the DMT was convex, it wouldn't evenly remove the grid off another hone. Does it? Have you tried using wet/dry sandpaper on glass or granite as a basis of comparison?
well i started shaving with a straight last summer and i could consistently get a sharp enough edge to shave with then. now i buy a norton 4k/8k and that thing and all hell breaks loose i've looked at my spine and everything, and that seems fine. the water stays all even as if the stone is flat but when i take the blade off the hone it won't cut worth a darn anymore after being able to at least cut arm hair fairly easy
What variables have changed since last summer, besides getting the DMT.
Also, what does the grid look like after minimal passes with the DMT? Did you try to lap the Norton with anything else to isolate the DMT variable?
well i had this kinda small stone don't know the grit probably 6-8k and i had to use the x pattern to get all the blade covered and i could shave comfortably everytime till it finally got dished. then i bought the norton 4k/8k and the dumb norton flattening stone... HUGE mistake... and the norton flattener was concave (proved that with the grid) then i purchased the dmt thinking failsafe and this happens. Given that the dmt i bought was only 45 dollars brand new in box on ebay this brought me to the conclusion that it just might be flawed somehow. the grid wears evenly with a few passes on the dmt
You sound awfully convinced it's not flat. Send it back to DMT and get a new one.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitshitthefan
Then you'll know for sure that the problem isn't your DMT.
I remember reading a post by Lynn I think (wiki maybe?) saying to lap off like 1/8 or 1/4 inch from the norton to get down to the good stuff. Maybe this has something to do with your edge.
+1 on the possibility of your 4/8 needing more attention. IME the Norton 4/8 is a very effective hone for sharpening and finishing razors. Chances are it is not the problem. As for the DMT, I have returned one D8C to Dia-Sharp and had it replaced. It was not flat within their tolerances. At the same time I also returned a D8F that wasn't flat enough as far as I was concerned but they said it was flat within their tolerances and returned it to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskerBiscuit
If you have a straight edge flip your DMT over to the smooth side. It will be easier to see if the plate is flat than using the diamond side. One way or the other, if you know how to hone and are doing the X stroke I doubt it would be out enough to dull your razor but it is possible. :gl:
Given that you are going from a stone of unknown properties (perhaps significantly higher grit?) to a 4K I think you should consider that you are essentially starting over. It seems to me that you have probably damaged whatever edge was on your razor previously and you have not yet been able to re-set the bevel. It can take a while with a 4K. I think this because you have said that the edge is dull, as opposed to uncomfortable to shave with or unevenly sharp.
You really need to be sure that you have a nice smooth surface on your 4K side. As many have posted before, sometimes quite a bit of material needs to be lapped off until the surface is smooth enough for razors. On my Norton I needed to remove approx 1/8" of porous, rough material. After doing that and radiusing the edges it works fine. Before proper lapping I completely ruined the edge on a brand new TI.:gaah:
If you say that your DMT is not flat enough I'll take your word for it and suggest you send it back. On the other hand, I think you should make sure that the Norton is fully prepped and ready (setting aside flatness) before you blame the lapping plate. Also, bear in mind that you will need to reset your bevel before you are going to get anything resembling the results you want.
Given that this is the case, I don't know why your first thought is that the DMT is not flat. If the DMT was not flat, it wouldn't remove the grid evenly.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitshitthefan
The reason your Norton lapping plate was not flat out of the box is that they need to be lapped before their first use and then they need to be lapped periodically. It is a waterstone, like any other waterstone, but designed for a different purpose.
+1 i am bad about lapping wetstones. I have been able to get find edges on some less than flat stones using x strokes.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
alright so even though i got it from someone on ebay i could send it to dmt? does it need to be in the box?
and on the norton, REALLY??? wow didn't think you needed to waste that much material my 8k side is baby smooth but my 4k does seem quiet a bit more aggressive than i pictured half of 8k would be
could it be that the extra course diamond plate is leaving marks in the norton,whenever i've lapped a stone with a coarse stone it's left marks and i've had to use finer stones to finish it properly
not seeing that as that problem cause my 8k side is scratchless
Here is there contact info. Give them a call during biz hours and let them know your plate is not flat. Make sure you check with a straight edge before you go to the trouble. It has to be out a certain amount to be out of tolerance to the point that they will replace it.Quote:
Originally Posted by bdubb9003
thanks! i will try
I have a DMT 220/325 (8x3) and one side is definitely NOT flat. If I lap a stone on the 220 side until the pencil grid is erased, it seems flat. But if I then do the same on the 325 side, the pencil grid is only erased in the middle of the stone, and it takes considerable more lapping to erase the rest of the pencil grid, depending on the hardness of the stone. I finish lapping with, and hone off of, the 325 side, and have no problem, so I suppose it's the 220 side that is not flat. (Is "unflat" a word?) However, it could be that the difference in unflatness (seriously, "unflatness?") is visually striking but so very minor that it wouldn't matter in the honing process. I don't know.
I do know that DMT will replace a stone, but it takes two months. I did it once for a 325/1200 combo that was losing its diamonds, and it was a no-hassle experience. Send it back, they test it, and send you a new one. No questions. They even included a few extra (slightly used) goodies, like a 325 DMT credit card for making slurries. Good company.
Anyway, good luck with your stone. =)
Me
thanks for the info. when i use my 8k side i can see that all the water is pushed away right to the stone in like the center inch so maybe same type of scenario where the middle of the dmt is a dish