King/IceBear Make for Decent Budget Hones

Since I'm on a budget, I decided to get a set of King/IceBear water stones from Woodcraft. I bought the 250/1k combo, and the 4k and 6k singles, all of which cost me about $85 after tax. That is roughly equivalent to a 4k/8k combo stone, so I decided to go the King route.

I understand that there are others that do better than these, but the King stones actually do a decent job for the money. After lapping them smooth, just 1 pass was enough to put a streak of metal particles on the stone. After 3 passes, swarf was starting to build, and after only 10 passes, the water was completely gray with swarf and loose particles. It's a little slower than the Naniwa's and Nortons, I'm sure. It took about 30 passes on the 4k to polish the scratch pattern from the 1k, same from 4-6. Of course, I cap it all of with the GuangXi starting from heavy slurry and diluting to clean water. About 10-20 passes over Flexcut Gold on a leather strop, 40 passes on clean leather, and I'm looking at a fierce, mirrored bevel that shaves me pretty comfortably.

Again, I'm not saying the Kings are the best at anything at all. I know they're definitely not. They are, however, a stone that performs well for someone that has a limited budget and can't afford something as reputable as the Naniwas or Nortons.

I use the King Icebear 1/6 in my synthetic progression. Just because they are not as popular does not mean anything. FYI the King 1000 grit is more like a 2000 grit and is a little slower when setting bevels. That can be a good thing especially for beginners. Some info on King stones.

King and Sun Tiger are trademarks of Matsunaga King stone company �¼‰iƒgƒCƒVŠ”Ž®‰ïŽÐ As you will notice, they make everything from diamond saws t o industrial grinding wheels and sandpaper. In case you can't figure out the menu system, here is the first page of sharpneing stones: �¼‰iƒgƒCƒVŠ”Ž®‰ïŽÐ (just click on the arrows at the bottom to go to the rest of the pages. ) Most of their stones aside from the the diamond stones, new ceramic stones and the sintered green and black carbide stones (usually branded Sun Tiger) are made of abrasives mixed with clay and backed (most are yellow to red orange and may feel and smell like an ordinary clay flower pot (which are pretty much the same thing without the abrasive). These clay-bonded stones generally have good water retention, soak well (and can be stored in water without harm) and have good feedback or "road feel" though they may dish faster and not cut as fast as some special high-tech stones, they often have better feel, water retention and are cheaper. Their 4k Fn medium stones and 8k Gn polish stones are highly rated (n=1 for large, 2 for med. 3 for small). They also have a 6k Sn stone that is also decent but not as good as the F and G. They also have some Hyper stones in the 1k range made specifically for stainless. All in all, they make good products... some of the best clay bonded stones out there (haven't tried their new ceramics or their diamond waterstone, though it is rated more highly than Naniwa's 1k diamond waterstone)

Ice Bear or Kumagoro (Japanese for ice bear or polar bear) are the trademarks of Harima enterprises, which is a trading company HARIMA ENTERPRISES, CORP. that has stuff made for them by sub contractors (much like Hoffritz used to sell cutlery under their name that was actually made by many different small knife makers in Soligen Germany). They sell western style knives under the ice bear brand and traditional Japanese style under the kumagoro brand, They also sell a rebranded Kitayama 8k sharpening stone as a 10k Ice Bear stone (really 8k but will polish like a 12k if you work the mud) and possibly the 1k Kitayama (I have only seen the 1k Kitayama for sale on Japanese sites so the ice bear 1k at Tools for Working Wood may be the only way to get ahold of one). They probably also deal in tools like woodworking chisels and saws (ice bear chisels for example) and that division probably sells some repackaged King stones to go with their tools. By the way I know some Japanese individuals that use only King stones when working on knives and swords at the lower grits.
Hope this helps, have fun.
Mike

I bought a set of king hones from the local home store here in Japan. I am no where near experienced at honing, but I used the king 1k,4k and 8k to bring the edge back on my J. Crosse razor. All three stones cast me roughly $85-$90. Well worth it, in my opinion.

I used a similar set up to the OP for a couple of years & the only downside was that they dish quickly compared to harder stones but if you use a diamond plate regularly you can address that easily enough. For maintaining a handful of razors the dishing is hardly even a consideration.

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Originally Posted by SonOf1337

Since I'm on a budget, I decided to get a set of King/IceBear water stones from Woodcraft. I bought the 250/1k combo, and the 4k and 6k singles, all of which cost me about $85 after tax. That is roughly equivalent to a 4k/8k combo stone, so I decided to go the King route.

I understand that there are others that do better than these, but the King stones actually do a decent job for the money. After lapping them smooth, just 1 pass was enough to put a streak of metal particles on the stone. After 3 passes, swarf was starting to build, and after only 10 passes, the water was completely gray with swarf and loose particles. It's a little slower than the Naniwa's and Nortons, I'm sure. It took about 30 passes on the 4k to polish the scratch pattern from the 1k, same from 4-6. Of course, I cap it all of with the GuangXi starting from heavy slurry and diluting to clean water. About 10-20 passes over Flexcut Gold on a leather strop, 40 passes on clean leather, and I'm looking at a fierce, mirrored bevel that shaves me pretty comfortably.

Again, I'm not saying the Kings are the best at anything at all. I know they're definitely not. They are, however, a stone that performs well for someone that has a limited budget and can't afford something as reputable as the Naniwas or Nortons.

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Are you still using the King hones and do you have any more thoughts on them? Woodcraft currently has a $15 off coupon online which negates tax and shipping so I'm thinking about picking up a set while I save up for something fancier like the Naniwas.

I've been using the King stones(800/4000 combo and 8k) for a few months and I like them quite a bit. They are slower than the Nortons, but they give a great edge. IMO they are more than worth the money.

I got "good" edges off my 1K King, 6K Ice Bear and Flexcut Gold pasted paddle strop. The 1K dishes quickly, so I reflatten it before the final passes when setting the bevel on even 1 razor. The 1K also takes 15-20 minutes of soaking time before it's ready (otherwise you have to add water every 5-10 laps). The 1K to 6K jump is bigger than is convenient, but this just means you need 2x as many strokes on the 6K to polish out scratches. Afterwards, reflattening and rinsing the slurry off the 6K allows it to sort of work almost like an 8K...

Eventually, I bought the Naniwa 4K, 8K, 12K set from SRD. Just using the 4 & 8 K caused my edges to be significantly better (ie: 1 step better = "noticeable", 2 steps better = "significantly"), and the whole honing process takes 1/3 the time. And the irritating pre-soak time, and the need to reflattening mid-razor are gone :)

The 4K is even coarse enough to remove minor dings in the edge (like if I catch the scales while closing the razor...) with 3x the strokes as a 1K would take. Due to the presoak and flattening issues, I use it instead of my 1K King. I'll be getting a Naniwa 1K next time I order something from SRD.

It's funny that the King 1k is rarely recommended. I actually really like it for setting bevels on my razors. If I were to rank feedback of the bevel setters I've tried, I'd say the following:

-Shapton GS 1k- slippery and HARD, only a little gritty (I know slippery and gritty sound like a contradiction, but if you've felt the feedback from this stone, maybe you know what I mean)
-King 1k- a little soft (not too much for razors since the pressure is always relatively light no matter how hard you push) and a little gritty but not much
-Chosera 1k- right in between Shapton and King and a great balance
-Naniwa SS 1k- gummy, uber soft, uber smooth

The Chosera 1k is really the only bevel setter I've tried that I liked the feedback more than the King. The edge off the King is actually similar to the Chosera in my experience and though it's slower than the Chosera, I never found it to be all that slow. If you really need to take out a good sized chip/frown and really need a lot of speed, maybe something below 1k is in order at that point anyways.

I use a king budget priced 350/1000 combo that I bought for sharpening plane irons and chisels to hone out chips and set bevels on my few straight acquisitions & occasional for sales. The 350 side does seem slow but gets it done, love the 1K side but it dishes fast as noted. I don't have HAD, and haven't tried much else, but it fills my low grit needs quite well and my razors don't complain!

Thanks. I've heard lots of good things about the 1k so that was going to be purchased no matter what. But if SWMBO permits, I may get to pick up the 4k and 6k to try out as well.

ok, so my hone came in today with a little chip out if it. Am I correct in assuming that this little bugger will be a non issue?

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5104/...0a1a240c_z.jpg
IMG_3705 by harner.bill, on Flickr

Given the location on the hone, I can't imagine that being a problem.

Kind of what I figured but this is my first non barber's hone so I just wanted to make sure I didn't need to send it back.

I'd assumed that was on one of the short edges, is that correct? Even if it's not, you could just always have the chip on the toe-side and you'd probably never run over it. Or use the back (if it's not a combo stone).