Question Regarding 'Old Time' Honing

When I search around the forums, eBay, other shave sites, etc. I always notice that vintage hones are primarily barber hones or something similar. There are some exceptions of course, like finishing hones such as Eschers look a bit different in photos though I've never seen one in person.

That being said, what was used in the past to put edges on razors? There (to my knowledge) wasn't a system of synthetics where one would go through bevel setting up to finishing. Never seen old strop pastes or sprays, these are probably very modern.

Was it all single stone honing on naturals or were manufacturers doing something and barbers/personal users simply used finishers and barber hones to keep the edge over time?

Interesting question. I'm not the most knowledgeable on these matters, but I'll chip in with what I know: they did have stropping media like crocus in the early days, and I also know some used to strop on ash. Also I suspect there were way more natural stones around, with all the high quality synthetics the demand for natural stones have dwindled and there is less demand for them. I suspect they had quite a number of other practices as well and were able to keep great edges. Swords, axes and knives have been used for centuries and there's little doubt some were very sharp. I'm sure someone else will chip in with more knowledge.

Basically, any natural stone can sharpen steel with varying degrees of success and consistancy.

I'm not precisely sure when synthetic hones came into the equation I suppose that man searched out rocks to hone his cutting implements from the time they developed them. The best of whatever was available in one or another vicinity became the go to hone in that region. As time passed and commerce began between countries the cream of the naturals rose to the top.

It seems the best known hones in Europe were the Belgian Coticule and the German waterstones from the Thuringan region. Notably the Escher. Great Britain had the Charnley Forrest, the Scots Tam O'Shanter, Dalmore Blue, Water of Ayr, and imported the Turkey Stone. In the USA the Arkansas stones, Washita, soft, hard and black hard were probably dominant way back before imports into the colonies became more prevalent. I'm just supposing here, no hard facts.

I don't know when the Japanese stones became known outside of their home country. They were a closed society to the western world for centuries from what I understand. I suspect as soon as synthetic stones became available, pastes and what not people began to take advantage of them as they continue to do today. Here is a good thread with more educated info on the topic than I can provide. :)

Great info Jimmy, that post you linked is really informative also. So am I correct that they used these stones for the entire honing process? Just based on what you said I would assume this is true.

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Originally Posted by ats200

Great info Jimmy, that post you linked is really informative also. So am I correct that they used these stones for the entire honing process? Just based on what you said I would assume this is true.

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Your guess is as good as mine. :) I've often wondered what the precise answer to that question is. What I'm guessing is that they were no different than we are today, they used what was available at the time. Some of them probably settled for whatever worked while others searched for something better.

I wonder if there were hone freaks in those days with closets filled with coticules, charnleys and other obscure rocks ? Probably not, they were more sensible back in those days when it came to the value of a dollar. We also have to take into consideration that in those days there were vendors who traveled from town to town, village to village and sharpened tools, scissors, knives and razors. So some of it was farmed out just as it is today by some folks.

Just got off the phone with my grandmother. She described my grandfather's and great grandfather's experience with honing. My grandfather took his to a barber friend who used what sounds like a coticule. My great grandfather honed his own on a " blue/black stone, sometimes after rubbing another stone on it" (slurry?) I don't want to assume the stone as that could describe a few. She also went on to mention that he would occasionally take his razor to his work stones, but that was when he chipped them, they were black course one, white smooth one and another she can't really remember. Mind you my grandmother is 86 (sharp as a razor) and the youngest born when her father was 50! So she remembers some stuff. On that these weren't important aspects of her life and she could remember wrong.

My guess is that the first synthetic hones were made in the 1890's. Unfortunately, that is a guess with little evidence beyond the stamps on some of the Carborundum boxes indicating awards listed as early as 1903. I suspect the number of people who had decent coticule, thuringian, Arkansas, or such caliber hones represented the minority of shavers, though I'd presume it to be a requisite for barbers who used them for honing their, and their customers', razors.

I have maintained a rotation of 7 razors for about 8 years now with nothing but a barber hone. They remain sharp and have distinct boundaries between the bevel and the face of the blade. Honing maintains that boundary while pasted strops eventually, over a long time, would eliminate that boundary by rounding it over. Most of the old razors that I have examined under a microscope do not have such a boundary. For that reason, I speculate that the majority of razors were maintained with strops, not hones.

I remember seeing a photograph of a Wade and Butcher razor production hall with large wheel-shaped grinding stones. Back in those days sandstone of various grit sizes was readily available.

I have seen those grinders co called saddle grinders in action in one factory. They were hovever used for rough grinding. For the finer work were more appropriate wheels and crush grinders for hollowing.

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I'm not precisely sure when synthetic hones came into the equation I suppose that man searched out rocks to hone his cutting implements from the time they developed them. The best of whatever was available in one or another vicinity became the go to hone in that region. As time passed and commerce began between countries the cream of the naturals rose to the top.

It seems the best known hones in Europe were the Belgian Coticule and the German waterstones from the Thuringan region. Notably the Escher. Great Britain had the Charnley Forrest, the Scots Tam O'Shanter, Dalmore Blue, Water of Ayr, and imported the Turkey Stone. In the USA the Arkansas stones, Washita, soft, hard and black hard were probably dominant way back before imports into the colonies became more prevalent. I'm just supposing here, no hard facts.

I don't know when the Japanese stones became known outside of their home country. They were a closed society to the western world for centuries from what I understand. I suspect as soon as synthetic stones became available, pastes and what not people began to take advantage of them as they continue to do today. Here is a good thread with more educated info on the topic than I can provide. :)

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Also keep in mind that even back in the neolithic there were trade routes stretching hundreds or over a thousand miles. Remember that Egypt imported all their wood for their boats from Lebanon. So that people would not be limited to only locally occurring goods. English and German stones probably were the first stones used in the Americas to hone razors, I mean how close to the original colonies are Arkansas stone deposits?

Razor stones are a very good trade commodity, relatively cheap where they are found but small and easy to transport, and something that there will be good demand for if they lack comparable stones in the region you are importing it to.

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Your guess is as good as mine. :) I've often wondered what the precise answer to that question is. What I'm guessing is that they were no different than we are today, they used what was available at the time. Some of them probably settled for whatever worked while others searched for something better.

I wonder if there were hone freaks in those days with closets filled with coticules, charnleys and other obscure rocks ? Probably not, they were more sensible back in those days when it came to the value of a dollar. We also have to take into consideration that in those days there were vendors who traveled from town to town, village to village and sharpened tools, scissors, knives and razors. So some of it was farmed out just as it is today by some folks.

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Look up Tulip Mania. Fads and collecting is nothing new. The percentage of people who could afford to collect something and the absolute number of people who could collect something might change, and of course they didn't have the internet driving obscure hobbies at the time either, but some individuals might well collect odd things.

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Originally Posted by Utopian

My guess is that the first synthetic hones were made in the 1890's. Unfortunately, that is a guess with little evidence beyond the stamps on some of the Carborundum boxes indicating awards listed as early as 1903. I suspect the number of people who had decent coticule, thuringian, Arkansas, or such caliber hones represented the minority of shavers, though I'd presume it to be a requisite for barbers who used them for honing their, and their customers', razors.

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This is compounded by what percentage of people just went to the barber once or twice a week for a shave. Many people did not own razors themselves. I am sure many people never shaved themselves even if they were regularly shaved.

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Originally Posted by PonderingTurtle

Look up Tulip Mania. Fads and collecting is nothing new. The percentage of people who could afford to collect something and the absolute number of people who could collect something might change, and of course they didn't have the internet driving obscure hobbies at the time either, but some individuals might well collect odd things.

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You calling me odd :mad: ??? Just kidding. :) There is a google book here from the 1890s that gives a lot of early history on who was using what around that time. It focuses on the geological area of Arkansas but goes into world wide trends in sharpening stones. BTW, you're other post mentioning that Arkansas was far from the original colonies is a pertinent point. Very close to "Indian Territory" if not a part of it. BTW, your screen name fits your thinking patterns. Obviously a lot of pondering going on :tu

arkansas was actually being explored by the Spanish before most of the origional colonies were even founded. Weather or not they used the stones from the area, I don't know, but it's entirely plausible. They would have needed something to keep their swords sharp and it would be impractical to carry a stone with them at all times.

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Originally Posted by Theseus

arkansas was actually being explored by the Spanish before most of the origional colonies were even founded. Weather or not they used the stones from the area, I don't know, but it's entirely plausible. They would have needed something to keep their swords sharp and it would be impractical to carry a stone with them at all times.

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Agreed, I'd bet they look for something locally to use. In those days, You had a smitty, who more than likely had a sharpening wheel. When I grew up, I remember having a butcher shop down the street, sawdust on the floor and all. He has a big stone wheel in the back of his place, Many times, He'd have the gate open, and I'd see him sharpening knives....

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

You calling me odd :mad: ??? Just kidding. :) There is a google book here from the 1890s that gives a lot of early history on who was using what around that time. It focuses on the geological area of Arkansas but goes into world wide trends in sharpening stones. BTW, you're other post mentioning that Arkansas was far from the original colonies is a pertinent point. Very close to "Indian Territory" if not a part of it. BTW, your screen name fits your thinking patterns. Obviously a lot of pondering going on :tu

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Well I was also a historic interpretor and read about blacksmithing in the american colonies. During the colonial period for example steel production was outlawed in the colonies, they could make pig iron or wrought iron but not convert it into steel. And there are clay pots on Caribbean islands that required materials from far away, that meant they had to be traded for by the indigenous people.

Trade even in prehistoric times was generally pretty common.

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Originally Posted by Theseus

arkansas was actually being explored by the Spanish before most of the origional colonies were even founded. Weather or not they used the stones from the area, I don't know, but it's entirely plausible. They would have needed something to keep their swords sharp and it would be impractical to carry a stone with them at all times.

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Good point, no doubt the native Americans in the area were sharpening their knives, arrowheads, what have you. Probably the first to discover the properties of the Arkansas sharpening stones.

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Originally Posted by Theseus

arkansas was actually being explored by the Spanish before most of the origional colonies were even founded. Weather or not they used the stones from the area, I don't know, but it's entirely plausible. They would have needed something to keep their swords sharp and it would be impractical to carry a stone with them at all times.

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I would wonder about that. Any kind of organized expedition could well carry a few stones, and I would rather than risk needing a decent sharpening stone and not being able to find one. Individual explorers might be different but any large scale expedition it is no bother at all. Look at all the stuff Lewis and Clark toted across the US.


I checked and Lewis and Clark specifically have whetstones listed in their inventory.

Lke Jimmy said, Barber's had Coticules, Eschers, and the like. I wonder too, what did they do, when they needed a bevel set or if they had a chip...(Calm down Coti guys)
I wonder if they sent out blades, to a blacksmith, or even a butcher friend? Or did they have stuff we don't know about....? My wife's uncle's father was a Barber in NY in the late 1800's. (I already asked him if he had any stuff, Nope) He's 93 and sharp as a tack, lives on his own, makes his own measl...etc...I'll ask him what his Dad use to do, if he remembers....

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Originally Posted by PonderingTurtle

I would wonder about that. Any kind of organized expedition could well carry a few stones, and I would rather than risk needing a decent sharpening stone and not being able to find one. Individual explorers might be different but any large scale expedition it is no bother at all. Look at all the stuff Lewis and Clark toted across the US.

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This is true. Most of the exploration of the continant by the Spanish was done in small groups, most of them breaking away from the main expedition force, to look for gold and treasure.

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Originally Posted by zib

Lke Jimmy said, Barber's had Coticules, Eschers, and the like. I wonder too, what did they do, when they needed a bevel set or if they had a chip...(Calm down Coti guys)
I wonder if they sent out blades, to a blacksmith, or even a butcher friend? Or did they have stuff we don't know about....? My wife's uncle's father was a Barber in NY in the late 1800's. (I already asked him if he had any stuff, Nope) He's 93 and sharp as a tack, lives on his own, makes his own measl...etc...I'll ask him what his Dad use to do, if he remembers....

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Not a blacksmith in general, but a cutler or whitesmith or well anyone who did that kind of work. Blacksmiths were a very diverse profession with many specialties with in it. So you wouldn't take a knife to a farrier or your horse to a knife maker.

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Originally Posted by PonderingTurtle

Not a blacksmith in general, but a cutler or whitesmith or well anyone who did that kind of work. Blacksmiths were a very diverse profession with many specialties with in it. So you wouldn't take a knife to a farrier or your horse to a knife maker.

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Thanks for so politely letting me know. The information is appreciated. I'll definitely remember your name.