Question On Arkansas Stones

I recently came across a local vendor, not associated here, that offered honing services for razors. Just to pick his brain, I asked him what his honing progression was. He said he uses Nortons through 8k, then moves to a Chinese naturals for (roughly, I know) 12k and 15k, then a black Arkansas stone and finished with a Swaty.


??


I've been under the impression that:

A) Arkansas stones, although differing in density, only went to about 1500 in grit.

B) Swaty hones, despite generation (2 line, 3 line), were more coarse in grit than the PHIG or other Chinese natural stones, even though the PHIG cuts very slow.


I think I read somewhere that Arkansas Black Surgicals were the finest of the Novaculites, but would it depend more on the grit of stone used to lap the Arkansas?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DerekC

I recently came across a local vendor, not associated here, that offered honing services for razors. Just to pick his brain, I asked him what his honing progression was. He said he uses Nortons through 8k, then moves to a Chinese naturals for (roughly, I know) 12k and 15k, then a black Arkansas stone and finished with a Swaty.


??
My thoughts exactly!

I've been under the impression that:

A) Arkansas stones, although differing in density, only went to about 1500 in grit.
More or less. As with many natural stones, the density of the abrasive is as important as the size or material name. That said, some Arkansas stones are very fine finishers.
B) Swaty hones, despite generation (2 line, 3 line), were more coarse in grit than the PHIG or other Chinese natural stones, even though the PHIG cuts very slow.
I would be hesitant to give a grit rating to either the PHIG or the Swaty, but yes, this is very much a step backward in my experience.

I think I read somewhere that Arkansas Black Surgicals were the finest of the Novaculites, but would it depend more on the grit of stone used to lap the Arkansas?

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Black surgical is the finest currently quarried. There are very hard, smooth translucent Arkansas which are finer...

Since I cannot know how fine each of his natural stones are I can't comment on that progression, but unless they are very coarse the Swaty is a step backward... if they are so rough that the Swaty improves the edge, then they are either unnecessary steps, or he is using too much pressure...

I have three arkansas stones (soft, hard and black). I use them mostly for knives and only sometimes for razors. They are good to repair a nick or frown. For black Arkansas 1.5K is maximum, probably even less. Swaty hones were traditionally used for touch ups of razor, not for honing. I don't think that it is of high grit.

Again, cannot remember the sourcing, but I remember reading that the actual micron size of the grit on an Arkansas stone is the same across the board, which is why it is rated in density. hereby, the stone or method used to flatten/smooth the Arkansas is what gives it the final grit rating. Don't know if there's any truth to that. Someone once told me that if I read it on the internet, then it is in-errant truth. Hah.

I'm using black Arkansas for two years and I can assure you that the edge, left by this stone, very much resemble rough edge left by 1K artificial stone. Not much difference. It is clearly seen with enlarging lense.

On the flip side, the translucent stone I've been using leaves a high polish, HHT-passing, shave ready edge. YSMV (your stone may vary).

I don't use translucent stone, but I heard that some people use it as finishing stone.

IME, the only difference between surgical black and translucent stones is the price. Both can offer a similar, very fine edge on both knives and razors.

Black Arkansas is a good finisher for knives, not for razors. It leaves rather rough edge.

I have a small hand stone which I bought sight unseen in the 1970s as hard Arkansas. I don't doubt that came from there, and is hard. But is is so smooth that I could never see or feel anything you wouldn't with smooth but dull opalescent glass. It was completely useless for anything I wanted to do in decades. Even now I would love a big one, but it seems too narrow, at about 1", to polish a straight razor plade.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DerekC

I recently came across a local vendor, not associated here, that offered honing services for razors. Just to pick his brain, I asked him what his honing progression was. He said he uses Nortons through 8k, then moves to a Chinese naturals for (roughly, I know) 12k and 15k, then a black Arkansas stone and finished with a Swaty.

??


I've been under the impression that:

A) Arkansas stones, although differing in density, only went to about 1500 in grit.

B) Swaty hones, despite generation (2 line, 3 line), were more coarse in grit than the PHIG or other Chinese natural stones, even though the PHIG cuts very slow.


I think I read somewhere that Arkansas Black Surgicals were the finest of the Novaculites, but would it depend more on the grit of stone used to lap the Arkansas?

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The only question answer pair that is important here is: "How does it shave?".

If he uses Nortons down to 8K he is off to a very good start.

The PHIG, Black, Swaty sequence is going to depend on his hand
and technique more than the hones themselves.

To use all three seems odd but if the result is a good
shaving edge then what works works.

PHIGs as all natural hones vary in grit. If he has a good
one it will polish the cut surface left by the 8K Norton.

Novaculites are graded by density more than grit. The
quarts grains that are the foundation of the rock are all
about the same "grit". The density however invokes the
bed of nails effect and the denser the rock the less pressure
any one grain can have to grind into the steel. With use
a Black will have all the sharp tops of the quartz grains polished
and rounded. A black should be conditioned by rubbing with
a bar of steel after lapping (IMO&IME). My black is a great
hone. The initial saw marks made for a confusing start when new.
In my case I uses some 8K loose grit and an old knife to worry
the saw cuts away. At this point it polishes a lot finer than 8K loose grit.
It like all Novaculite hones does not cut steel like a Naniwa or Norton
it more burnishes and polishes once broken in.

A well polished Swaty is famous for maintaining an edge.

His process seems designed/ ideal for older and softer steel.
Hard steel like a Thiers-Issard or some of the New York
state made steel not so much unless the man has a practiced
touch.

I am optimistic about the result...

Again....
The important question is: "How does it shave?".