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My first hone is coming in today I got a NANIWA SUPER STONE 12000 GRIT IN STAND from SRD and I was wondering something. I know I need to lap the hone before I use it the first time, but how often between uses should I lap. I am just going to be maintaining my two razors nothing else in the immediate future. Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks.
All I do is a few circles and ovals before each time I hone. I picked that up from Glen (gssixgun).
I basically lap mine or clean them after each use. It only takes a few seconds and then I am ready for a quick soaking and use the next time.
Have fun,
Lynn
+1. I do the same with all of my stones, except my PHIG.Quote:
Originally Posted by wmac
I used to lap the Naniwas lightly when I used them.
Like stated above, just a few light circles with a 325 Grit DMT, just before honing.
On the superstones I like to spray a splash of water on the stone and let it sit for a few minutes before lapping. Same with the Shapton pros. I would for sure lap it when I first received it.
Thanks for all the quick responses, I had another questions I did not get a lapping plate so I am guessing I will have to use a new sheet of sandpaper each time i need to lap?
Yes that is the ticket. Here is a tutorial Josh Earl did on it awhile back.Quote:
Originally Posted by swimlikehell
http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...ing-101-a.html
Yep, preventative maintenance is always the best. Just make sure the stone is dead flat in the first place and that's all you'll ever need to do for the life of the stone.Quote:
Originally Posted by wmac
I learnt this with plane and chisel blades, flattening after many uses takes a very, very long time; even on the softest of stones like the king and lobster brands!
If you've had a long session like a bevel regrind, i'd suggest having a good flattening session after that, otherwise it should be fine to do it before each hone
+1 to the previous posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by swimlikehell
I might change the question from "How often" to "Toward what purpose".
There are two general purposes for lapping a hone.
One is to lap it flat.
Two is to clean the surface.
If you are honing in a progression or pyramid
flat is a very good thing. Flat hones are the best way
for the finer next hone to see the same steel
that the last hone worked on. A flat geometry
or close to flat geometry is important as you
switch hones. And also if you have many
razors. The consistent geometry just makes
life easy and flat is an easy geometry.
The cleaning of the surface is another reason.
As you hone a razor, both the hone and the razor
give up material that clogs the surface and complicates
the ability of the hone to do its job.
So if you get in the habit of lapping the thinnest
bit from your hone each time, (Think half the thickness of
a sheet of paper.) you will accomplish both.
I forget who has a signature that reminds us that
the old timers were not too concerned with
lapping their hones flat. They would use variations
in honing strokes to adjust for the shape of the
hone as much as the smile or frown (shape) of a razor.
The Naniwa (unlike the Nortons) does not need
any special first time lapping. Just lap it
flatter and clean.
Splash water on the hone and give it a couple figure
eight wipes with a DMT and then begin to refresh
your razor. Take advantage of the slurry the
lapping leaves behind. After ten or twenty hone strokes
begin to dilute the slurry so the last ten hone strokes
are just clear water on the hone. You can dilute quickly or
in steps.
Naniwa hones do seem to soak up water in
odd ways. As they do the surface changes from flat to
slightly wavy and then even back to flat. If you chase flat
attempting perfection you may never get perfection.
So just splash the surface, rub it with your palm, rinse,
give it a couple light figure eight laps and use it.
It will even out as you find a rhythm to the process.
Do watch Glen's (gssixgun) videos on youtube he shows
a couple different hone strokes. You can use circles
on the higher bits of your hone to even the wear on the
hone and razor. You can use the back and forth Japanese
strokes to speed up steel removal a bit without growing a burr.
Do note the deliberate light finish strokes at the end to perfect the edge.
I might comment, but risk a big discussion in doing so, that with two razors
and a Na12KSS you can almost ignore lapping flat for maintaining
them. Just let them dish out slightly over time. The saddle shape
the hone will develop in a couple years will build a fine micro bevel and
eventually match exactly the contour of your razors. This falls apart
when you get more hones or more razors but just maintaining two razors with
a Na12kSS lapping flat is almost a don't care. I say this because one
of the DMT credit card size hones can be used to keep the surface
clean, flat enough at the same time that it also generates a light slurry.
The NANIWA SUPER STONE 12000 GRIT is a deluxe hone... enjoy.
in reality you need to lap it as often as it needs, how often will depend on use.
When you take it out of the box it will need lapping, you need to make sure it is flat, and also that you have removed all the residue from the label on the stone surface.
I purchased a Naniwa 12K SS several months ago, and I've had difficulty keeping
it flat ever since. No written instructions came with the hone, but my understanding
was that the stone should be soaked for 10-15 minutes, and then lapped. so, I
soaked it, penciled on a grid, and then lapped on a DMT 325.
My understanding was that I would seldom need to re-lap the stone. However, it
required re-lapping every time I used it. (I checked it with a pencil grid each time)
I tried soaking it for various times, from 5 to 20 minutes, and it needed re-lapping
no matter how long it soaked.
Now, there is quite a variety of advice here:
Lynn says lap it after use and then give it a quick soak before using it again;
Glen says soak it, but just give it 6 figure 8's before use, and never mind the
pencil grid;
Sham (in another thread) says soak it or just sprinkle water on it, it doesn't matter,
as long as you do the same thing every time;
JimmyHAD says use a splash of water and let it sit for a few minutes;
niftyshaving says much the same, but doesn't expect perfection.
You guys know more about this than I do, but I'm really confused now.
Paul
Few of us hone as many razors as Glen or Lynn or some of the other hobbyists. If all you are doing is using it to maintain your own small collection then IMO frequent lapping is not required at all. The 12k isn't a work horse of a hone like a bevel setter or a Norton 4/8, you're really only using it for 10 laps at a time before putting it back into the closet, so there won't be any appreciable wear or swarf buildup.
That being said, since Naniwas are soft stones, if you notice that your hone isn't providing adequate touch ups anymore I would recommend a light lapping session before trying again. Or in other words, lap it when it needs it ;)
I suppose it could look a bit confusing.
I had to lightly lap it before each session on my 12K.
I made sure to give it a good pool of water to soak in for a few minutes before lapping, lapped it under running water, and then sprayed water on it during honing as needed.
We all have slightly different approaches to it, but I guess we have all used them a bit, and then found what works best for our individual needs and preferences.
As in most things, I guess that is the important thing, trying it out and finding a way that makes it work for you:)
the SS do not need to be soaked for more than 5 min, technically they are not soakers at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulKidd
As far as having to lap every time, they tend to change shape because they are resin bound.
I solved my problem with my SS by getting 2cm ones and gluing them to bases, they have not moved ever since.
That could be more the result of over-soaking the SS stones tooQuote:
Originally Posted by mainaman
I do not soak mineQuote:
Originally Posted by Ryan82
Unfortunately, no, I don't think that is it. I had that same problem when I simply sprayed a light mist on each one. This still lead to non-uniform distortion. I have switched to Lynn's method of pre-soaking and lapping after use. This seems to be the most consistent. I used to soak, lap, and hone in a manner similar to what Glen later outlined in his "seeking Naniwa users" thread but that still lead to more distortion than I wanted to tolerate.
Edit: My post was in response to Ryan82's post but someone got in the way!
Neither do I, but PaulKidd said he's experimented with various soaking times and has had problems. It seems that many of us have different responses to these stones and I would suspect it has something to do with the stones themselves (softness perhaps?), so each user will likely have to find the techique that works best with their stone rather than using a single step solution.Quote:
Originally Posted by mainaman
Like I said, I've never soaked mine and have had no problems at all, but bear in mind that I only have the 12k in the Naniwa line and can not comment on the others in the SS series.
Ok, so you have not seen the varied response to soaking. If you look at this thread I started, you will see that some hones respond differently than others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan82
lol - thanks for the link Ron, I do remember reading some of that thread awhile ago, I promise when I have a free afternoon I'll get through the whole thing. :) But it does likely backup what I'm saying about honers having to learn how to get the best out of their individual honesQuote:
Originally Posted by Utopian
Yep this is a grand topic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan82
First off +1 to all the senior responses above.
Utopian's link is a good visit and worth the time.
Lynn's experience is vast and if you need
one answer read his.
When I got my Naniwa12K I set out to lap
it flat. I was frustrated with the results so I set
out to experiment.
I let it dry bone dry and drew a grid
on it then dunked in in a bucket of
water and lapped it.
I thought I had it flat but being cautious
one more time... grid and lap... durn
it is not flat so new grid, dunk in in the
bucket and lap it again. Fresh grid
check it and it is not flat....
I fumed futzed dunked and abused a great hone
for an hour ate lunch and worried it gain for an hour
or more.
What I learned is a list:
+ the hone is soft and quickly clogs the lap even under running water.
this can protect the grid.
+ the hone changes dimension as it takes up water so flat
now is not flat in 20 min.
+ the hone takes up water bit by bit for HOURS perhaps for days.
I tried wrapping it in a plastic bag to keep it wet and that
helped but for more than over night this is not recommended.
It will grow a slime coat and that is just not cool.
Like the original poster I have a single face to shave
and as a result I only need to hone/ refresh my select
shavers once a month or even three times a year.
Thus the hone needs to be stored bone dry for weeks
on end.
Unlike the OP I have rotations of blades that let
me tinker for an afternoon instead of the fifteen
min that two shavers take to refresh.
My recommendation:
Spray the hone and very lightly lap/ rub it for a light slurry.
Spray as needed and hone your razor taking advantage
of the slurry that lapping gave you.
Dilute the slurry by rinsing slurry off the razor and
spraying the hone surface. A small wave in front of the edge is
a good thing.
Repeat for the second razor.
Repeat for the third razor.
...
Repeat as needed.
When finished lightly lap, rinse clean
and put away so it can slowly air dry.
And:
If you are honing razors day in and
day out the hone will never fully dry
between use and the dimensional
dynamics will vanish...
If like me you hone in fits and starts weeks
perhaps months apart just spritz the
surface lightly lap for a slurry. No big
dip and dunk except at the end to clean
the hone for storage.