C12K with nagura instead of asagi with nagura?

Guys, I have been thinking about buying a very
hard, good quality asagi to finish my plane blades
and in the future perhaps a straight razor.

I have never seen an asagi or C12K, so I cannot
comment on their finess and hardness. My feeling
says that hardness is perhaps the same(on average)
and the best asagis are probably finer. The great
thing about the C12K is that it is probably 20 times
cheaper than very good asagi.

The really hard and fine stones tend to be very slow
and usually slightly scratchy. Solution is to use nagura
to create slurry. I saw this video of a ozuko asagi and
was wondering whether I could do the same with the C12k:

ohzuku :: Ohzuku_with_Iyo_white_star_nagura video by mifuqwai - Photobucket

The stone in the video looks and sounds like a very hard stone.
I don't know if the chinese stone is that hard. That stone is
I am guessing 600+USD, so you know why I am hoping the C12K
could perform the same.

Thanks.

Sharpman

The video is for knifes Iyo Nagura is to coarse thats why it sound that way, i will not even recommend it for knifes.
But i think you can use Asano Naguras on C12K why not, but they are coarse then C12k so why bother, you will not get finer finish out of that

And Hard Ozuku is much harder then C12K, and they are not scratchy on razors only on laminated blades

I have tried naguras on C12k, and it worked well, but the big BUT is you need to have the right c12k. They vary in quality, and you need to fine a fine one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by maxim207

The video is for knifes Iyo Nagura is to coarse thats why it sound that way, i will not even recommend it for knifes.
But i think you can use Asano Naguras on C12K why not, but they are coarse then C12k so why bother, you will not get finer finish out of that

And Hard Ozuku is much harder then C12K, and they are not scratchy on razors only on laminated blades

---

Thanks for the reply Maxim.

I was thinking with the nagura maybe I can skip the 3000/4000(intermediate
stone). Maybe even the 1000 stone.

If you listen carefully, at the beginning the slurry is very coarse, but it gets much
finer at the end, much quieter. Maybe not 12K fine. Perhaps then wash away the slurry
and make slurry with the C12K small stone(tomonagura) to get and finish with this?

I thought C12K was very hard, but since you have seen both stones, you say
hard ozuku is much harder. I check your site sometimes. You use LV rating. How
hard is the C12K according to you in LV?

I have checked all the sites in english and unfortunately a
flawless(or almost flawless) very hard ozuku(8 by 3inhches by 1.5 or more) is
just too expensive for me at the moment.Starts at about 600 USD
at least. I am going to check totoriya(toishi.jp). Maybe they have better
prices for me. PM me Maxim a price, maybe we can do business.

Sharpman

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mainaman

I have tried naguras on C12k, and it worked well, but the big BUT is you need to have the right c12k. They vary in quality, and you need to fine a fine one.

---

Good to hear Stefan.

Where did you buy yours? Can you compare your C12k to your very good japanese
naturals. I mean the C12K is so much more expensive, but I have read that if you
get a good one and use it correctly it is about 20K.

Sharpman

I am into wood planes. When you said plane, did you mean plain? Well anyway, it was a natural transition from razor honing to wood plane irons. What I did was get a very nice Ohira finishing hone, full size, for about $200.00. The stone is very nice and pretty fine. It is not as fine as the Asagi, that I eventually got, but it is an excellent stone. Definately a lot cheaper. On this stone I use my Naguras and they sharpen up plane irons very well. I then squirt some CBN on the stone and take it to the final polishing. CBN cuts amazingly fast. I do a little different process with a razor but I still use the same stones.

My understanding is that this is the same process that a lot of people are using to sharpen knives so if you meant plain knife blades, it works very well.

Take Care,
Richard

Quote:

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Originally Posted by riooso

I am into wood planes. When you said plane, did you mean plain? Well anyway, it was a natural transition from razor honing to wood plane irons. What I did was get a very nice Ohira finishing hone, full size, for about $200.00. The stone is very nice and pretty fine. It is not as fine as the Asagi, that I eventually got, but it is an excellent stone. Definately a lot cheaper. On this stone I use my Naguras and they sharpen up plane irons very well. I then squirt some CBN on the stone and take it to the final polishing. CBN cuts amazingly fast. I do a little different process with a razor but I still use the same stones.

My understanding is that this is the same process that a lot of people are using to sharpen knives so if you meant plain knife blades, it works very well.

Take Care,
Richard

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Hi Richard,

No, I mainly sharpen plane blades. I use stanleys, not wooden.

Thanks for the information. Have you tried sharpening plane blades on your asagi
with nagura? If yes, what were the results compared to the ohira?

Sharpman

Quote:

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Originally Posted by maxim207

The video is for knifes Iyo Nagura is to coarse thats why it sound that way, i will not even recommend it for knifes.
But i think you can use Asano Naguras on C12K why not, but they are coarse then C12k so why bother, you will not get finer finish out of that

And Hard Ozuku is much harder then C12K, and they are not scratchy on razors only on laminated blades

---

Maxim, here is the picture of the finish with the lyo on that hard
ohzuko stone:

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/3429/1103f.jpg

This is what 330amte himself says:

Quote:

---

With Iyo Nagura slurry! The first, Cutting speed is felt so rich.
And the tenacity of slurry is also very rich. This is one of famous feature of Iyo.
Next, the grit of slurry are shrunken as long as sharpened!!
In the same time, cutting speed progressively decelerated.
Blackish iron is suspend in the slurry very well!!!

At last, appeared funny mist and haze.
Even if Iyo was applied, the grit rose up!! What a amazing!!
Much skill is necessary to rise up the grit of slurry.
But, everyone can enjoy the help of slurry!!! Don't mind.

---

Sharpman

You can try them out :)
I have 5 of them from him and i will not even use them on my knifes. I have huge Iyo stone too but i dont like it ether.
I feel like Iyo stones contain to much sand, but maybe its only from him i dont know, but its for sure that i will not recommend to use them on razors !

Quote:

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Originally Posted by maxim207

You can try them out :)
I have 5 of them from him and i will not even use them on my knifes. I have huge Iyo stone too but i dont like it ether.
I feel like Iyo stones contain to much sand, but maybe its only from him i dont know, but its for sure that i will not recommend to use them on razors !

---

I understand. Maxim how hard would you rate the Chinese 12k stone
with the LV rating? Thanks.

Sharpman

Hmm like stefan told you they are all different but mine i guess is lv 3 out of 5, but i have to say it is not as fine as Jnat lv 3

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SharpMan

Good to hear Stefan.

Where did you buy yours? Can you compare your C12k to your very good japanese
naturals. I mean the C12K is so much more expensive, but I have read that if you
get a good one and use it correctly it is about 20K.

Sharpman

---

I got mine from Woodcraft, but no there is no comparison with my current Jnats.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by maxim207

Hmm like stefan told you they are all different but mine i guess is lv 3 out of 5, but i have to say it is not as fine as Jnat lv 3

---

That is strange. So many people comment that it is a really hard stone.
Either you got a softer stone or the very hard Japanese stones are
much harder. Maybe Stefan can comment on this.

Sharpman

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SharpMan

That is strange. So many people comment that it is a really hard stone.
Either you got a softer stone or the very hard Japanese stones are
much harder. Maybe Stefan can comment on this.

Sharpman

---

people that have never seen a really had Jnat will say a c12k is hard, but if you can compare side by side you will see the difference.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mainaman

I got mine from Woodcraft, but no there is no comparison with my current Jnats.

---

Stefan, could you explain in more detail? Hardness, finess, honing sensation, with
or without nagura?

Thanks.

Sharpman.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SharpMan

Stefan, could you explain in more detail? Hardness, finess, honing sensation, with
or without nagura?

Thanks.

Sharpman.

---

I sold it a while a go.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SharpMan

Hi Richard,

No, I mainly sharpen plane blades. I use stanleys, not wooden.

Thanks for the information. Have you tried sharpening plane blades on your asagi
with nagura? If yes, what were the results compared to the ohira?

Sharpman

---

I know this is off topic but.....I am using Lee-Valley bevel up planes. When I said, wood, I was speaking of planes that are used for wood. :p Well anyway I have not seen a need to go to the Asagi. After using Naguras on the Ohira the slurry from the Ohira stone is very fine and probably in the 15-20K range. I spray 0.125 CBN on the Ohira and finish with that. I don't like using my very expensive Asagi for plane irons, it wouldn't hurt it but I don't care for the idea.

When honing razors I finish using my Asagi with slurry then with just water. I would put the final finish well over 30K and that is a guess but I used to have a 30K and the scratch pattern is even finer than that. It is a very hard and at the same time fast cutting. With just water is feels velvety smooth like a Coticule so I have strong feelings for my Asagi.

I find that razor honing greatly increased my skill for plane iron honing and the rocks used are about the same but not quite as fine. It really is not needed. I am getting 0.0015 ribbon shavings out of my plane and to polish any more than that is not time efficient.

Hope that helps,
Richard