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Howdy everyone,
I was looking on YouTube for honing videos and just came across this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5APdX...mbedded#at=102
Now i never used this before nor do i really plan on using it, but i thought id ask everyone else what their thoughts are.
How do you think it compares to our usual methods of honing?
I saw this one awhile ago but figured it is not worth posting , I am not convinced it will work well for razors, you know right pressure etc.
Also it can't be used with naturals so for those that like to finish higher than 12k it is useless.
One other thing to consider is the bevel angles, can that gizmo be used to put the spine on the stones?
i agree i never bothered to think about owning this just because i couldnt use my favorite finishers.
As far as i know the spine doesnt come in contact with the stone.
If nothing else, that is a pretty cool looking idea. I think it would work well with knives. As we all know, razors are a different ballgame, so I have my doubts, but I'm not willing to count it out entirely. Anyone game to rent/buy one and test it on a bunch of razors???? I'd do it but it looks expensive as hell!
It seems like he has it down pretty well. I'm not too sure about his method for setting the guides, but that's could be figured out.
What might bother me is that the motion used with this system doesn't seem that natural and while the guides do well they don't help control the pressure. This could be a problem initially, but of course yu must remember that I have not touched the system.
Q: How do you think it compares to our usual methods of honing?
A: Lots of opinions seem possible to me.
The two hand left right hone strokes seem
more complex to learn than our normal one
handed hone process. The 10K hones
would be fine.
The skinny hones and the mechanics may
be able to accommodate a difficult bevel on a big smiling or
frowning razor.
If you have a hammer the whole world begins to look like
a nail.
it is made for knife sharpening, but for its price one can get a full set of stones and learn how to hone IMHO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo7
Just look at the price of the accessory stones I find it crazy expensive
http://www.wickededgeusa.com/ZenCart...dn8dtar3jmbla3
Those with the means have the luxury of not needing to learn much at all. For a rich man who wants sharp knives and does not want to learn, this might be a good product.
I'm none of these except for the wanting sharp knives part!
A honing machine?
I think we already have one; "hi_bud_gl" :hmmm:
I thought this was a thread about Lynn :p
That seem far less efficient than normal honing. Each stroke is tiny, and the guy can't go much faster than an experienced honer. I also don't see how you can correct for issues on a razor (smile, fix a frown, deal with a warp, etc).
I don't know what those things cost, but you need the machine thing plus two of each hone/strop (unless you want to switch one thing back and forth for each side).
I know it's not normal, but I hone several razors in one sitting, and putting them in and taking them out would be a serious PITA for me.
I just don't see that as being any easier, more efficient, or inexpensive than normal honing. And I don't see how it could possibly be nearly as enjoyable.
Lastly, why did he buy what appears to be a new Dovo BQ at a gun show? He said gun show and I assumed vintage. Or maybe it's not a new BQ. But come on, the guy says stropping takes a lot of skill? WHAT?
Lol I agree holli.
Apparently stropping is a great skill we all just learned so easily.
The video made me laugh. Thought I'd give us a little chuckle.
Actually now that I look at the video again it's painfully awkward to watch him try to hone on that...
I thought the same, as he was telling me how difficult stropping is...Quote:
Originally Posted by basil
I have been using this product, Wicked Edge Precision knife sharpening system for over two years now and can speak at length on it. For knives it is by far the best sharpening system I have ever used or found in over 30 years. It use's diamond hones, Naniwa stones, leather strops, and balsa strops. I have diamond paste that goes to 0.0125 micron. I can produce a repeatable bevel from 10-45 degrees with ease. Now the bad news. I have tried it on hollow ground blades and found they have to much flex in them. Clay made this video in response to a challenge by me. I'm not sure if a wedge as a W&B would do better but with any 1/4 or full holow forget it for not wasting steel. simply not enough backbone to not flex and mess up the bevel.
So in summary. Great for knives!!!! I have done a new machete with no bevel set on it to shaving sharp in under 30 minutes going through the progression from 80 grit to 0.0125 micron strop at 35 degrees and it's fantastic. For any hunters out there my blades when sharpened with this can butcher 3 hogs with out needing to be sharpened in between. Do that with any other sharpener. I know it happen as Hog's have extremely coarse wire like hair. But for razor's forget it. Stick to what we do. Yes the WEPS is expensive but with the amount of knives I have and maintain/use it's worth it.
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Str8Shooter,
You left out one vital piece of equipment from your review.
http://i762.photobucket.com/albums/x...JDBBQSauce.jpg
I ran across that last night but figured that you'd have to position the stones just right, which might get a little tedious. I also thought, how can you use water and slurry?Quote:
Originally Posted by basil
There has to be a reason why nobody has come up with an automatic sharpener for straight razors. Probably it is because everyone's needs are a little different and you can't take chances with your face.
It's really not a machine at all, really a guide. From what I can see it's based on the Lansky system which uses a holder very similar and also uses a guide which attaches to narrow hones. It's also much cheaper.
Its an interesting idea, but I cant help but think its overthinking things a bit. I can see the point of using a guide for knife sharpening where you have to maintain an angle by hand but a razor has the guide built in on the spine, so its pretty easy to get element that right.
Ok, you still have to work on getting the stroke and touch right but I'd certainly not one as much if I had to get this thing out every time! And you can only use the stones they give you for it, theres no Asagi attachment.
This is Texas... We dry rub everything. No sauce!Quote:
Originally Posted by Hirlau
the lansky does not hold it stable as this does. The lansky is not reproducing a bevel and it does not go to as fine a grit!Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigspendur
..... That's what she said....Quote:
Originally Posted by Str8Shooter
Sharpening aids come and go if they were as good as they say everyone would use them ask anyone who uses knives to make a living and most will tell you a good stone is the best way to sharpen guess you could say the same with the old barbers shaving people day after day as for a twenty degree angle on each bevel you end up with a fourty degree edge which may be good for an axe but not much else and for the cost you can buy some great full sized stones that will last a lifetime
I'm an apprentice butcher ie use knives for a living.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alucard73
we own three stores in our city and we have a bench mounted system at each shop and one of the butchers has one at home so I think the comment is a little unjustified,
a stone may be more convienient for use in store for quick touch ups but a proper system such as an edge pro, blade sharpener or the wicked edge not a little hand held item is in valueble. as for edge angle, if I put a cut throat 18deg angle on my boning knife it'll be sharper than my colleges' blades however by the end of the day the fine edge will be destroyed, were a 40-45deg edge will cut well and be easily maintained by steeling lasting about a week.
to the op, I own a Wicked edge and have had a go on an old razor.
1, you really can't go fast on a razor
2, you need a non smiling razor or it doesn't work well
3, wedges? forget it
4, too easy to press too hard
its heaps slower than going by hand and you might as well put the money into bench stones if you want it for honing razors.
on the up side it really is GREAT for knives!
your missing out on a vital part of your apprenticeship by not learning how to sharpen a knife freehand as not all shops will have a sharpening system so then you can get the knife sharpen bloke to come around but it still wont be the same thirty years in the trade and i've worked in every aspect of it i've seen it all and nothing beats a couple good stone a decent steel a razor sharp knife and learning not to mash the edges best advice i ever got was learn how to do everything extremely well spend time in the abbs and the boning rooms etc
I think the missing bit is that razors have a built in guide.
If we remember this there is no need for a fancy machine.
For a knife system this is an interesting one especially
since they slice our famous man made hones from Nanawa
and others to fit to the hardware (Chosera, Superstone, Spiderco
ceramics, etc).
For the wood shop, kitchen and butcher shop the value of a correctly
sharpened edge is well known. Knowing how is often
a lost art. There is a local guy that sharpens knives different days
at different shops. He does a couple things right -- he uses water
cooled stones -- but he grinds the heck out of German steel. The result
is sharp but not correct to my eye. The best home knife solution
is the Shun solution... just pay postage and they will resharpen their
knives for you , correctly.
LMAO!! I thought that after posting.Quote:
Originally Posted by basil
I'm not sure where you get me placing a 40 degree bevel but oh well. this will never do an axe as it will not fit. As for sharpening a knife on stones, very few people are good at it and fewer still can make a consistent bevel of any kind. Even when stones were the only and common way to sharpen, the average person sucked at it. That's why the neighborhoods had sharpener carts going around doing your knives. I have never found anyone that could free hand hone or use any of the multiple systems such as the Lansky, that could come close to the sharpness level and consistent bevel reproduction that I am able with this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alucard73
Is it what I use on razors? No. Is it expensive? Yes. Would I buy it again? HELL YES! I have sharpened everything from a small MT blade to a 18" machete. Razor sharp everytime. Once you use it or see how well and fast it is it sells itself. All my friends that hunt/guide/do cook offs now own one or have me sharpen their blade. It works. Don't hate on it or claim you can do a better job free hand. In 5-10 minutes it's done. Dead no bevel to 0.0125 micon.
I don't think I'm missing out on part of my apprenticeship IMHO, but I do agree that freehanding is a skill that IS needed which I can do but not as well as with a system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alucard73
and Im actually a little bummed I don't have an abb anywere close I can spend a little time at
Most members of the kitchen knife forums sharpen knives by hand on stones, including traditional Japanese knives. Some are trying to use system like the one posted here but it can can only be used successfully on western style knives. Sharpening by hand is about muscle memory just like straight razor honing, learning to keep proper angle does not take long at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Str8Shooter
I thought this thread would be about Lynn...
str8 knife edge angles are inclusive hence 40 degrees if it was a chisel it would be 20 degrees,the biggest problem with learning how to sharpen is over thinking it and it's very easy to use observation to keep the blade at the right angle but most are defeated before they start by thinking i can't sharpen,you also forget that blades for different jobs need different edges and sharpening aids aren't flexible in that regard and your limited to what is designed into it
kalgoorlie practise your free hand sharpening as it will definitely come in handy especially if you go on to other jobs within the industry,it's a bit of a shame not having an abbs nearby but it's something you can look at later in life anyway,the knowledge gained by working in these other environments will only make you a better butcher and you'll get to see how the guys sharpen knives differently for the different jobs ,it was a real eye opener for me and a great learning experience and has helped me get a lot of my jobs
I have seen some people use a stone and get a fantastic edge. The is still a very small percentage of the population. It's definitely a skill set that takes years to master. I tried for the majority of my life and while it was a workable edge it was by no means what I can get now. It's just too easy to screw up. We in the str8 razor fraternity have a huge advantage with a built in guide (even with tape) by using the spine. I guess I will have to respectfully disagree that free hand sharpening is done properly, consistently and as well as with this system. Again while I have seen a few people over the years(they were freaks of nature with a skill set I could never hope to match) do a great job free hand. I and nobody I know can come close to that. I would love to be proved wrong but as yet anyone that I have seen that told me they could free hand sharpen to the level I can with the WEEPS was just full of it. Talk is cheap.Quote:
Originally Posted by mainaman
Alucard I'm not sure if we are agreeing or disagreeing. Clearly there are multiple style's of grinds and bevel's out there. A typical dual bevel edge, chisel, concave etc. I have different knives for different tasks. I keep all but a few of my knives with a traditional bevel. My kitchen/chef blades are at 15 degrees, my hunting are from 22-30 depending on type of steel, my hard use survival/camping knives are 30-38. My machete's are 35. I do have a boot knife that is a chisel grind and I keep that a 2 degree on the flat and 40 on the bevel for an actual bevel of 38 degrees. I'm typically not a fan of a chisel edge but it is a downrange deployment SHTF blade. The times I have had to use a knife on a deployment in a defensive/offensive role is twice. Never with this one, but to me knives/guns are like condoms. I'd rather have it and not need it then need it and not have it. 1 is none, 2 is 1, 3 is 2 when carrying.
If anyone can free hand sharpen to about 20ish degree's, please make a video showing the edge you get. Again talk is cheap. I can take a won't cut butter blade to hair cutting sharp (0.025 micron) in 10-15 minutes depending on blade size. Even the blade guru's out there I know can't come close to that in time or sharpness level. And yes I'm talking about a knife not a Str8.
