I'm ready to try out a coticule but there are many different veins, la petite, la vienette, ect.. I'm mostly looking for a good all around smooth edge finisher. If you could only choose one vein which would it be ?
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I'm ready to try out a coticule but there are many different veins, la petite, la vienette, ect.. I'm mostly looking for a good all around smooth edge finisher. If you could only choose one vein which would it be ?
I'm a great fan of the stone but know nothing of layers so can't really help you on that score. You could do some reading on coticule.be and get an idea, but in the end, if you get a coticule from a source that you trust to supply one that is good for razors, the real key to getting the best out of it is in learning how to use it. I'm not too sure how useful that is since it could be more or less applied to any stone/system but good luck anyway.
mellowace,
Please have a peek here : http://www.coticule.be/
And more specifically here : http://www.coticule.be/the-cafeteria/message/24548.html
The Superior Shave has a very interesting coti page : Belgian Coticule Hones
I have a vintage La Veinette/BBW combo and a La Verte. The La Verte is harder, but they both finish the edge as well as each other :)
Good luck with your choice of coti :)
Best regards
Russ
Ebay usually has vintage ones that can be cheaper than any new ones in good size. I've owned about ten coticules in the past year and each layer can cut very differently. As mentioned check the coticule site for layer information. Imo the old select grade ones or kosher grade ones are the best but that can be touchy a subject.
Coticule.be is a great site for info but they cone off a little elitist for my taste. If I could pick one stone la dressete (sp) would be pretty high on my list I like la for finish but as they are extremely hard it's not easy getting slurry for non finishing purposes.
I'd personally go for a thuringian. IMHO they leave better edges and can be had for a very reasonable price on eBay.
After all, a thuringian is just an unbadged Escher! :)
+1 The older Selects and Kosher also some of the Vintage stones that are about 7x1.5 in an actual "Razor Stone" boxes that were stamped Extra fine or Extra Extra fine are some of the best out there...Quote:
Originally Posted by Disburden
One thing to keep in mind when discussing coticule veins. The hone is derived from metamorphic rock that is made up of layers of sediment that accumulated over millions of years. Even within a vein the length of the run will not necessarily be homogeneous so you will have variations of properties within the vein. IOW call it whatever you want but even coticules out of the same vein may differ in honing characteristics.
A couple of years ago I discussed this with a well known coticule expert and enthusiast from Belgium. He pointed out that the veins we are hearing about are given to these areas within the mine at Ardennes Mining Company. They did not name them according to any quality of the rock. Rather so that when they were working in a specific area within their mine they had a way of identifying it. Other coticule mines in the area, now long gone, such as the "Old Rock", had their own pet names for veins within their mines that are long forgotten.
I have and/or have had quite a few vintage coticules, as well as a few current harvest from Ardennes. Regardless of which vein they came out of they all have their individual characteristics and we have to hone on them to see how best to use them to our advantage in honing razors. So my point is don't get carried away with the name of the stone. See how well it works for you and where it fits in to you arsenal. Just IMHO.
A member recently asked me the same thing. Have you guys actually seen the Coticules being sold these days? Many vendors no longer sell them. I checked 3 well known sources, and nothing, none for sale, and the one's for sale, well, they're terrible. Many are broken, and have all kinds of deposits on them. Where are all the Selected grade stones? Like Stu said, I'd go for an Escher, seriously. They're consistent, and I haven't come across a bad one.
Now, if you find a good one, (Seriously, Good luck, I used to sell them) I'd get a La petite, or a Dressante, both are good, all around stones...But be advised, These stones can be brittle. Don't buy one with lot's of cracks, or veins, or inclusions, or whatever they call it today. It seems to get a good one, you may have to go through the quarry directly, and they are very expensive. If had to pay that much, I'd go for an Escher.
P.S. As Jimmy said, don't get hung up on vein names. Each Coticule cuts differently, even within the same vein, so it's a crap shoot, and there is a huge learning curve with that stone, regardless of what you hear. Vein names have only come out recently. Prior to vein names, we all wanted "Selected" grade stones.
The standard grade sold today weren't used for razors, mostly tools.
In the pic are a small Dressante 6x2, and a La Nouvelle 8x3 with a slurry. Both are Selected grade stones suitable for straight razors. The razor is from Jim, it was made for Kanayama. It's a western style Japanese blade scaled by our Max in Jade ghost of course.
TSS has plenty good looking select grade cotis. Buying directly from Ardennes is great as well.
I have a LPB from Ardennes (left) and a LGB bout from TSS. A Jnat and a "C12K" wanted to come along for the family picture... :)
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/125/stones1x.jpg
By blix72 at 2011-06-30
The biggest stock I've seen in one place is at The Superior Shave, and the owner there has a soft spot for these stones. Your head will spin at all the options--best to let Jarrod know what you want and you'll very likely get it.
There was a pretty active thread last week about using a Naniwa 12k after or before going to a coticule finish. It was convincing enough that I've just ordered the stone to give it a try. It's a long but very informative thread.
Lol hey that's my post on coti.be
Good to know others found it as useful as I did.
Like many have said before a layer is just a name. While they may have similar characteristics within each vein they will still also differ from stone to stone.
Some time with the stone is required to know what you can get out of it.
My favorite vein is the petite blanche
I've had well over 30 coticules in the last four years. I've never come a cross a bad one yet. As said above , i would'nt let a certain named vain mislead you. you'd probably be better of getting one that was unnamed. then you could just get on with honing. Like rich i would say a select la drassante is notv far of a good consistant coticule , they normaly cut well with slurry and finish well enought to give you a nice skin freindly shave .
i have to say i'm only using my la patite blanch from jarrard at superior shave . the edges are so smooth its unreal . I have had lots of coticules with no name deliver just as gooder egdes.
gary
You really have touched a vein here. I agree with many of the posts here, these are just names and Coticules differe one from another. I have two, I do not know from which vein(s) they were mined; I called them the Arrogant Bastards. HOG
You would have to know the reason for the names and who named them. Was it done by a Geologist who tested the stones and decided they were very different coming from different parts of the mine or were they names by the mine operator to just classify what area of the mine they were working?
Not only is every stone different, every layer is different. I had one that cut slow, I lapped it a second time and you could see the swarf in a couple of strokes. If you want a great finisher get a Thuringian.
I've used well over 2 dozen coticules that are currently being sold by Ardennes. As others have chimed, they are a natural stone and will vary even in the same layer. I have a La Dressante that is just an excellent stone that cuts well with slurry and leaves a very nice finish, though not the smoothest. Other Dressantes I've had weren't like this one and from what I've read and experienced, it is the most inconsistent layer.
La Petite blanches have been the hardest coticules for me to master and I wouldn't recommend one to begin with, though you certainly can. They are pretty consistent in being fast on both slurry and water, though can show slurry dulling which can set your edge back as you hone.
La Veinettes are the most consistent layer I've used. Fast on slurry, slow on water and leave a very smooth finish. Great all around stone, though Ardennes has a price hike on this layer.
La Grise's, and La Grosse Blanches are very consistent in leaving probably the smoothest edges you can get from coticules.
In general, it is best to just get one and learn it thoroughly. You should be able to get smooth edges from most any of the layers (though I'd avoid a La Verte as they leave a very keen edge that I like, but definitely not on the smooth side of coticules).
Coticules are nice because you can do so much with them. If all you are looking for is a finisher, you should really check out a vintage thuringian or escher. These have always brought my coticule edges to the next level and lately are all I've been shaving off. Vintage thuringians can be had for cheaper than a lot of coticules as well (though the same can't be said of escher's).
Best of luck.
Attachment 261664Attachment 261665Attachment 261666Attachment 261667Attachment 261668Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Edson
Hello.
PLS Help identify what vien is?
Hello Mikhail,
the coticule looks like it is a Les Latneuse vein. The interesting thing is that most Les Latneuses are combinations of two layers, one is a more coticule like layer in typical creamy coticule color and a so-called hybrid layer which is not as uniform and consists mostly of quartz and clorite. In the deposits, these two layers exist twice, followed by a very red colored BBW. From the pictures I would say you have a Les Latneuses -hybrid layer combined with the red BBW.
Very nice and rare example if I am correct! But I could be wrong though.
OK, thank's a lot
Hello .
I have à extra long collection of Coticule .
I have a "La verte " very very fine most than à "LA VEINETTE" . La grise is à good coticule with very great color .
Or you have the rare " La dressante " .
All of Coticule is great but for me not the " sélected " Coticule stone .
Yes, it's an excellent stone, it works very fast, but if you compare it to my other stones, it works about 8 K
Alright Mikhail.
You know me Mikhail :-)
Yes, I bought the stone you have, now think about this Pierre a rasoir coupe chou Coticule | eBay
Yes . I see " Mikhail" ... Ohhh i know à Mikhail !
Yes its m'y Selling to France for my friend to my country ;=)
This big coticule is very special because she have a yellow patern with à little Latneuse in the top natural combo red bbw . Or red Salm . This one is great and big format . I see for Sell in the Srp forum soon .
What kind of layer can this be? Is it a fast stone? Preliminary finish for a razor?
The layer ? Natural yellow with little layer latneuse . All of my Stone was very rare . I think i never see in e bay same of my Stone . Its à Quick finish stone / hard layer perfect for razor but you can use this on knives too . I prefer on razor .
Ok, thank's a lot
If you want more information or what you want you contact me . I am always Here . Thank You
Does the quartz make any problems while honing?Quote:
Originally Posted by hatzicho
Well quartz is an abrasive, typical for a lot of whetstones i.e. thuringians and novaculite stones - for example Arkansas. In Coticules quartz is not the main abrasive but garnets (spessartine crystals). Quartz is undesired in Coticules because the particles are too large most of the time in the coticule veins. Means, they produce deep scratches and can even destroy a razor edge. But of course that depends on the coticule you have in hand. If the quartz particles are small enough they can also enhance the sharpening process. Problem is - you cannot see the size of the particles with your naked eye and even with a lupe or microskop you will have problems to recognize and clasify the quartz.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blunon
So practise and trial is the only way to find out. Best not with a razor first, but a strong knife.
Oh okayQuote:
Originally Posted by hatzicho
Because I have a stone with quartz in it. But since I’m not practiced with coticule, I really have no clue how a problem would feel like.
I do notice a sort of skipping, but that could be due to these spots being smoother than the rest
Beautiful stones, love your posts.
Yes coticule have lot of different vein . Its interesting. See a small view of my collection .
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