Hay out there, without mentioning the seller, which precious little japanese natural razor hone did you hone with today? Is it a asagi, kiita or suita or some other tomae stone? What is the size and do you handhold your hone? Any and all photos would be appreciated and a good photo of the back of the stone too. Alx
Can't find the photo just now, but I have a Nakayama Asagi. It's maybe 7 x 1.5 and maybe an inch thick, mounted to a wooden base. Sometimes I hand hold it, sometimes I leave it on the table. I use water only, partly to preserve the stamps and partly because I really like the results. No skin on the sides, but I'm not sure about the bottom.
http://straightrazorpalace.com/membe...shing-hone.jpg
Osaki finishing hone to the far right in the picture.
The Japanese natural hone that I use regularly is the Osaki finishing hone. It is a very hard and very high grit hone that I bought from a member here.
Size is 135mm long by 85mm wide by 25mm thick at the thinnest point.
I still consider it one of my best “shaving investments”.
I used a Shoubudani light Asagi on 2 razors last night.
My progression with that finisher is to use a 1-5 and 10K Chosera, then I use a Botan and Tenjou Nagura for two sets each.
After that I finish on a TomoNagura, diluting the Nagura a bit as I go.
On this particular hone, I never go all the way to water, I seem to get the best result from a very light slurry on it.
The size is about 200mm X 70mm X 25mm
Here's a couple pics of it:
Attachment 77385
Attachment 77386
I use right now Unknown one, very wird stone and unusual, it is soft but super super fine, never have seen such a stone.
I fist even thought that it is not Jnat because feeling and feedback feels much like Eschers and size is very unusual too. I got it from old barber shop, i think it is Nakayma but not sure ! Edges i get from that stone is like Ozukus or Shoubu but stone it self is much much softer.
Size is 205mm 45mm 35mm
Attachment 77390Attachment 77391Attachment 77392
This is my Nakayama Maruichi
Attachment 77409
This stone has served me well but because of some very good advice from Stefan [mainaman] this week, I have developed a "lapping progression" for this stone.. I had been lapping and making slurry on this stone with the 325 grit diamond plate. Stefan suggested that I could improve my edges by improving the surface of this stone with finer stones in the lapping process.
So, I now have a "lapping progression" which goes like this; 325 diamond plate, Norton 1k, BBW and finish with the Norton 8k. This new surface on the Nakayama has given me the best shaves I have ever gotten in my 43 years of straight shaving.
JERRY
Mine has all the same stamps as Jerry.
Yesterday I used a nakayama asagi. Great little hone, not as hard as a couple of my Ozukus, but produces much finer, keener and smoother edges.
Dry:
http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/...0904-00031.jpg
Wet:
http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/...0904-00032.jpg
I need to do another lapping progression. I use three stones to rub together alternating them until they are all flat to each other. The scratches are remenants of an experiment, unsuccessful.
I use right now Unknown one, very wird stone and unusual, it is soft but super super fine, never have seen such a stone.
I fist even thought that it is not Jnat because feeling and feedback feels much like Eschers and size is very unusual too. I got it from old barber shop, i think it is Nakayma but not sure ! Edges i get from that stone is like Ozukus or Shoubu but stone it self is much much softer.
Size is 205mm 45mm 35mm
Maxim, that looks like an kiita stone and although the most famous kiita came from Nayakaya, most of the other mines had small quanities also. I am trying to see the skin on the one side and if there is a deep and sparkling black over the rust red color and it is super fine grit, it most likely is a Nakayama. Because it looks like it was used (with the name on the back) and the saw marks are low rpm and heavy toothed it is from the 1960s or earlier. Could be a choice piece of stone. Alx
Quote:
Originally Posted by deighaingeal
Deighaingeal, the old classic asagi is a bluish/green color described in japan as a faint indigo color with a watery green cast. Some of the coloration is a mix of yellow and blue like yours, which optically blends into green if the colors are intense enough and intermixed. Your asagi is from a little lower elevation on the mountain with harder stone and you can see the effect of the ball effect where the Hon-kuchi-naori layer of stone was forced millions of years ago to roll a bit like a carpet being rolled up stretching out the mineral deposit. Do you find an difference in the sharpening qualities from one part of the stone like in the yellow area? Alx
I don't have apic, but it is a urigorami (i mght have misspelled that)... From you..
Used this beauty, on the right, just a few minutes ago to put a superb edge on my 6/8 square point Japanese "Favorit" brand folding razor. This stone is always a pleasure to use.
The stone is a Kamsori Suita Toishi and is about 2.25" wide x 6.25" in length. I use it on it's base.
Yes there are some sparkling black spots on red color of the skin but so there is on Hakka, Ozuku, Hideryama and many other mines, heavy toothed is on new stones too :)Quote:
Originally Posted by alx
The wird part is that it seems like to be used with oil before.
This Stone is not a Kiita.Quote:
Originally Posted by alx
It is a Suita without Su.
They are very rare and some of them can be used for last finisher which will be very fast and very fine.
It may be from Nakayama but other mines have Suita withour Su too.
Good find Maxim san.
Because my Oozuku Assagi is on lone to Rene, I've been getting to know this one a bit:
http://i924.photobucket.com/albums/a...a/0062605f.jpg
http://i924.photobucket.com/albums/a...a/952198bb.jpg
It's an Oozuku Suita (No Su) and seems to be providing a very nice, smooth edge!
I used a Kutsuki Kiita from Shiga-ken. It's sold as a Honyama stone, though it is not. It's a testament to the fact that Kyoto is not the only source for good stones. It's hard and fine, though a little lacking in abrasive power.
http://easternsmooth.com/sites/defau...ayamaStone.jpg
http://easternsmooth.com/sites/defau...ay/Junkawa.jpg
Jim
Can you tell us more about the Kutsuki stone, where it is from and it's like to use. The back of that stone looks awfuly familar. alx
Kutsuki is to the West of Takashima, near the border between Kyoto prefecture and Shiga prefecture. If you'd like to know more, try looking for Latitude 35.353216, Longitude: 135.845947 on Google maps.
This one is smooth and pure. It's got a faint feeling of abrasion in honing, but it doesn't objectively remove much steel on its own. Using slurry, it has better abrasive power and leaves a comfortably smooth and sharp edge.
Kutsuki stones are often sold as stand-in Nakayamas, according to a couple of people I've talked to (both of whom I trust a lot). Also, according to those people, if you find a good one it is every bit as good as any of the famous Kyoto stones--apart from a tendency to split unpredictably, which explains why this stone was sold sealed with Toishi-coat, though it has no visible cracks or tsuji.
I wrote more about the story behind this stone on my blog.
Hi Jim
Thanks for the info and the reminder of your fine blog. It is 9:08pm here in Kanazawa, but first thing at 4:00am tomorrow I will read up some more on your blog. best to you, Alx
Yesterday did a new to me, but very old near wedge by M. George - sheffield (no clue who that maker actually is). It had never been honed, and is my first wedge.
Used a synthetic bevel setter, then to heavy slurry chinese, then to a large nakayama asagi woodworking stone (not fine in terms of razors), to an ozuku asagi with slurry and then to an antique asagi stone with no scratchiness. Even new, the wedge took much much more work than a hollow ground more modern razor, and the grind wasn't exactly perfectly even on the wedge. Not sure if a higher dollar wedge would've been more even (as in, is it an issue of the maker) or if all really old wedges are like that.
Really like having a very fine jnat finisher - it's nice to avoid compounded strops, the geometry of the edge never gets out of whack and a little bit of time on the finest hone after the initial setup seems to keep the edge in good shape.
Good morning Jim
It's dark and peaceful at 4:00am in Kanazawa. I just read you blog and immediately realized that I had read that posting already, nice job. A couple of things here, that skin does look familar and I believe it is from one of the old Shobudani/Narutaki area mines. The color is pretty intense, have you lapped the stone down beyond the stamps? I have found that old stock stones form an thin oxidized film that tints the mineral content of the exposed surface which sometimes looks sort of yellow. Also some miners coated their finished stone with egg white to seal the surface from dirt and grime and to give the stone a superior finished look for retail, this egg wash will also oxidize. I am curious if the cutting speed will gain with this gem. Alx
Alex,Quote:
Originally Posted by alx
Yes, I have lapped it and no, the color did not change. The sides show the same color through and through--it appears to be a very homogenous stone.
In addition, the professionals I asked about this stone didn't express an instance of doubt that this is a Shiga stone, not a Shoubudani/Narutaki. What leads you to disagree?
Jim I have one Takashima that is pretty hard too, maybe the hardest non Kyoto stone i have seen color of the stone looks bit like yours no skin thought.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-9...0/IMGP7938.JPG
And i had ones Takashima that is razor quality in koppa size very hard stone Kiita too :)
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_KNF2TSFHAW...0/P1080974.JPG
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_KNF2TSFHAW...0/P1080978.JPG
So very good point, that not only Kyoto stones that makes super nice finishers !
Last few months I use Nakayama Nashiji for honing and Nakayama Uchigomori karasu suita (blue one)[IMG]qq[/IMG] for polishing. Both stones are superb.
Now,, i am thoughly confused (which is not unusual),,,, I bought an uchigorami and other than bevel setting sems to put a nice edge on my razors... But, i will say it is lacking that full butter feeling that i think i should get. Let explain the process and how I did it last night to try again this...
The razor was an Azuma and one was a De Pews:
1. Set bevels on 1200k (using the correct ratio for the kamisori).
2. Moved to 4000k for iniatial sharpening.
3. Once a minor amount of hair could come off i moved to the uchigorami ( friggin' beautiful stone, i may name my next child Alx).... then took a small monocular and could see that although sharp, it left a lot of sirations (lines onthe edge,not mirror).
4. I put it on a coticale.
5. Ran it on a Thuringian.
6. 16k Shapton ceramic to mirror up the edge.
7. 100 strokes on a brand new strop. Dovo.
8. Palm stropped, just for the added finer stropping.
9. Shavee.. Okay, but definety not uber...Did i mess up and use to many conflicting stones? Should i not worry about amirror result when using an uchigorami?
I went to scratch last night and Honed again with the uchi and the palm stopped to see if i just need to keep the process simpler...so, the question of the day is do I need a anoer stone like an asagi to do first before th uchi and anoer after the uchi to get that mirror look?
I am a little bit short of options here in my hotel room but this is the hone I used yesterday. I had to improvise and used another stone for raising a slurry but it all worked out. Alx
http://thejapanblade.com/images/hotelkiita.jpg
Uchigorami you meen Uchigomori ??Quote:
Originally Posted by Wintchase
If so they are not so good to finish your razors on, but very nice prepolishers. If i was you i get final finesher and use it after 16 k or Thuri, it dose not have to be Asagi ! Just one that is very hard and fine will be ok.
Wintchase!
"3. Once a minor amount of hair could come off " Do I understand right that the razors didn't shave arm hair effortlessly after the 4k? If thats the case, than you went to the finer stones too early.
do I understand correctly you honed a kamisori? 1k is way too coarse for those razors, you will loose a ton of steel at that grit level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wintchase
A great stone to set bevel on a kamisori is coticule for example.
Wintchase
The short answer is: if you want a mirror finish you need to finish the blade on your natruals with just clear water, this will leave a brighter finish, a polish really, or stick to the synthetics.
The long answer is:
It looks like you've got a short handful of stones there that will give you, each on their own, a decent shave if you gave them a chance to perform the way they want to. If the uchigumori's grit is fine enough to shave from when used as a razor hone, the micro scratches can be usually polished out with some light handed watered down slurry to some 20 strokes or so with just clear water. But even before the polishing stage at that point the stone with a thin slurry should have done the job already and provided you with a shaving edge. You did not mention if you used the uchigumori with a built up slurry.
If you cannot develop a shaving edge but the stone has proven in the past to be of actual really razor quality then you may have to go back and reset the bevel on this blade. The same with the other stones, you should get a good shave using each stone on its own with some technique tailored to the stones particular characteristics. And depending on the cutting power of the stone and the slurry content, a decent hone should develop a really good edge with 40-50 strokes, and a really excellent hone should to the same work in half that many strokes.
The Coti and Thuri will also leave micro scratches (a product and proof of abrasive sharpening) on the blade, these can be polished out. The 16k stone will also leave micro scratches but because the agrassive cutting power of synthetics and the scientifically graded and screened grit tends to leave long sharp scratches that are all the same width and length, they give the blade a mirror look because each scratch lines perfectly up with its neighbor scratch (do an alternate angled scratch pattern and a matte look finish begins to show a bit). Where as the naturals will leave some long, some short, some wide and some shallow scratches because being a friable abrasive particle the majority of scratches are much shorter (sometimes only as long as the are wide) and softer looking as the grit breaks down. And because of this matte look any slightly longer or larger scratches in the mix when silhouetted against the matte finish background, the first scratches your eye picks up look more distinct and might even give the illusion of being larger than they are. They may not be larger scratches per se as the 16k, but because they lay isolated against the matte finish of the blade they jump out as they reflect the light.
If the edge is developed to a razor tolerance, a normal strop or palm strop will clean up the foil edge, going back and forth from stone to stone will not alter it too much or for the better, but may throw the edge out of balance as far as over hoing one side of the blade or the other.
There are always better hones out there, and if the uchigumori was a sizeable investment and it is not giving you the edge you want, you should contact the seller and see if you can get a refund or a different stone. hope this helps and I am sure some others here will clarify what I was not able to. Alx
I apologize to everyone, i Tried to edit this post by taking ou the "requested not put in where i got the stone". Would any mentor please delee the post? I can't seem to do it from my ipad. Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wintchase
This little stone fits nicely on my open hand, and has been a pleasure to learn from. Nice cloudy blue, small black dots just here and there, with a shot of orange coming through at the edge. The skin along the long side is also rust orange, the other two sides are layered blue.
These pictures are old, I have since lapped out the scratches in the corners. Though, I think it needs to be lapped now that I understand what pressure to use. I thought about sealing it with urushi but can't find the proper brush, and see no real need yet.
It polishes with water alone very nicely after 20 strokes, and depending on the steel can continue refining the edge, almost to limit to how many stroke. The limiting variable right now is how steady my hand is. The feedback from this stone has revealed a lot about my stroke, it drags so gently when everything lines up right. It barely releases slurry on it's own, one can hardly see grey or black from cut steel unless it's a kamisori or knife (yes I play with my cutlery too) or if I use too much pressure, etc.
With slurry which is whitish, I find it cuts medium fast and is my stone of choice for nagura fun.
I was told it was Nakayama, but I don't know. It's a weird rock but I enjoy it.
foam brush will work just fine for the purposeQuote:
Originally Posted by bassguy
