Hi All,
Looking for opinions on the above question.
Anyone care to start?
Geoff
Printable View
Hi All,
Looking for opinions on the above question.
Anyone care to start?
Geoff
I just did a precursory search for Llyn Idwal. A couple of pages of threads but I didn't see one dedicated to the stone. My guess is not a lot of experienced honers on that stone ? Many like the coticule. If the Llyn Idwal isn't expensive you might try it and report back. Coticules are well known as far as characteristics go and you'll find a lot of feedback on those, thuringans, j-nats and of course synthetics.
My lynn idwall is more scratch then my coticule but i have only used it with water not oil, apparently they give a better edge with oil.
i'm guessing there is a reason why the coticule is more popular and expensive though..
There are quite a few stones from Britan
Tam o Shanter
Water of Ayre
Llyn Idwall
Charnley Forest
Dragon's Tongue
One other that the name escpaes my brain right now Green something or other
and probably more I don't know
Also of note
"Idwall, or Welsh Oil stone, 'is generally harder, but in other respects differs but little as a whetstone from the Charley Forest; but in consequence of its being more expensive is in less general use." (Knight, R, 1836, Hone-stones)
Cutler's Greenstone
I have few of each and have to say that if you looking more for universal hone to do your sharpening stage and final polishing with one then Coti is the way. If you looking just for polisher then both will do the job well. Realy all depends on quality of the stone itself.
Sometimes it is hard to distinguish difference between CF and Idwall as they are simmilar in colour, hardness and behaviour. In my opinion main difference is what I call flaking of Idwall. Those small translucent cracks which usualy have no influence on sharpening.
It all depends on what you like - not what others think! Both are finishers, but the former generally speaking leaves a smoother edge than the latter. Smooth or crisp, is what you are asking... :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Havachat45
Regards,
Neil
As well as the cutlers greenstone which eleblu05 pointed out, you could add:Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
moughton whetstone
dalmore yellow
dalmore blue
silkstone
There are (were?) others, but mostly they seem to be 'shy' and are rarely - if ever, seen. Ask AS about the elusive stuff of legend, the mysterious Devonshire Oilstone...
Regards,
Neil
Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
Rolling Stones, though they are rumored to age badly.
Not only that, one type leaves a Jaggered edge...Quote:
Originally Posted by stimpy52
I'd vote for term limits for rock & roll bands. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by stimpy52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil Miller
OMG those were SOoooooooooooooooooo Bad
But I laughed anyway :)
I'm also interested in IIyn Idwal stone. They always compare it with the charnley, but there are no reviews anywhere about this stone. I'm about to receive one, possibly tomorrow. If the coticule is finer (I guess without slurry), then, it has nothing in common with the charnley forest hones. Or maybe it depends from stone to stone as always. If anyone has experience with the stone, please inform us.
Welcome to SRP. When you receive it please post photos and impressions. Not much on the forum about this elusive stone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasilis
I'm still trying to figure out which types of stones are Llyn Idwals. If flaking is the common denominator then I know of 3 different types which might be LIs and I have one additional stone covered in cracks. Occasionly green CFs are sold as LI to add to the confusion.
So without specifying which type of stone exactly you're talking about you can't really compare notes (unless I'm totally wrong of course).
You must be lucky to buy Cf as for price of LI. My experience is exactly oposite. This is mainly due to difficulty of recognising them apart. If you have clean green CF they are rare and great.
As I have no time to do it I offer for somebody who has the experience and knowledge to pop by my house and have a go at those which i will have at the time.
Shane that london minimeet is probably not going to happen otherwise I would bring them there for others to test and say what they think.
Apart from those hones mentioned often you can see Yellow Lake hone.
They are both natural stones. This means they both vary considerably. They are both in my experience, finishing hones. I've only used one Idwall, but it surpassed most coticules I have tried. I also think the Idwall is an underrated, largely unknown hone. The question is, would you be able to tell the difference in the edge left by each?
Second, some coticules can do more than simply finish. If you can acquire the right one, you need not possess an artificial hone of grit greater than 3K. Some will uphold that they can be used after a 1K artificial in a progression, and it is possible to start a fire with a pair of damp sticks. You are likely to require at least an 8K finish before progressing to an Idwall however.
Thank you. Nice to meet you all. Unfortunately, I don't have a camera, but you can see the stone from the link;
eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace
I don't think it's Charnley forest(although I can't guarantee it isn't), WOA, TOS, Arkansas or anything like this. I would guess it is Llyn idwal. Yellow lake stone is very different, also known as Llyn Melynllyn, two variations if I'm not wrong, one slate, and another one, with different composition. I can give you a review on the slate type if you would like to, in another thread.
Nice looking stone. If the streaks were more purple I would ID it as a Charnley but it is hard to tell. I wouldn't know a Llyn Idal if I fell over one. Any stone you have that you would like to review would be welcome. The more obscure the stone the better. Get a camera though .... we love hone porn, especially obscure hones. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasilis
Could be an Idwal, I'd need better pictures of the stone, lapped. Funnily enough the seller's name is lyn...
Haha, nice one. I have about 15 stones, the 10 been natural. Unfortunately, most of them are quite common. And for time being, I can't afford to buy a few exotic like roztsutec, wastila, or the bohemian slate for some reviews. Although all of them are quite cheap.
When i test this arguably Llyn Idwal stone, i can post you the results, and, possibly ask if anyone knows if it looks like a Llyn idwal, with a few more photos.
Here is an Idwal for reference. I have seen Idwals that resemble the one in your link, but they may also vary. I have a couple of hones from the UK which are green with the odd few speckles which I can not identify. Slow polishers and very hard.
The color of your stone is very close to that of all green CFs but I do think it's a LI. This type should be in the same grit range as CFs but harder.
If it's not flat have fun lapping :D
Edit: The top stone is from the auction, the bottom is one of my LIs.
I don't mind if it needs lapping. If it's charnley forest fine grit, I'm very happy, and, money well spend. Thank you
Can you audition them both?
The best coticules are hard to top and easy to use.
A lot depends on what you hone with now and
how this next hone fits in your kit and as always
what your face likes.
I have an ordinary coticule so I would go for
the Llyn Idwal. ;-)
Not sure what is your hone from those pictures. However for that money you can not loose. Well done.
Thank you adrspach. For what i know, coticules are quite soft, fast and forgiving stones. Llin idwals are, from what i have heard, very hard, glass like stones, and with a quick, wrong pass, if they are unchamfered, they can damage your blade. For the price, Llyn Idwals are cheaper. Between those two, I would prefer the coticule.
Why would you not chamfer your Llyn Idwal? If you don't chamfer your coticule you can damage a razor as well.
Who wouldn't prefer the more expensive stone?
Anyway LIs are currently kind of cheap because they're not well known not because they're no good. You have to use it first before you can know which finish for your razor you prefer.
So to conclude, you need them both :)
The price of a stone has a little to do with its honing qualities. And each hone doesn't offer a big variety of grits (with slurry, plain water or oil for some) so one stone usually is not enough. If you can buy them both, it would be a good idea, but they re addictive, so, be careful.
Thankyou. I agree, and believe the price of a natural stone is often far more influenced by the reputation of the vendor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasilis
That ones on my watch list tooQuote:
Originally Posted by Vasilis
I disagree with you. There are many quite cheap hones with good honing qualities and they are cheap because they are still quarried unlike CF, Jnats and others.
It's true. The Chinese 12k is one of my favourites. The charnley forest when it was still quarried it was very very cheap, that goes also for the escher. It's stock market. When the mine closes, if the stone has a reputation, the demand rises but there aren't new stones to cover the market's needs, and the price rises for the already circulating ones. This is not the only factor, just an example. An expensive stone is not a better stone. And every cheap natural stone, the next 30 or 50 years will become very very expensive, so, collect as many as you can! :p (few of the Jnat mines are still operating, but the Japanese natural stones have become a legend, that's another factor that changes the price)