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If money was no object and you was going to buy new with the intention of takeing razors from a rusty Ebay bargin. Polishing it back to mirror finish. Then resetting the bevel removing a frown or chip etc through to shave ready what would be the best stones to buy and why ?
If money was no object I would buy all the stones I could get my hands on. Every member here has his, or her, price.
A full set of Shapton GlassStones!
A full set of shapton glass from 500 to 30.000, a full set of naniwas from 400 to 12k, and a DMT 325 for lapping. Try the two sets, keep the system wich you like best and sell the other.
Shapton 1,5, and 12/15 pro stones from japan (to avoid the huge markup it seems they're slapped with to get over here) and a vintage japanese barber hone that's specified to be as fine as possible (coming off of a 1 micron sized shapton, speed won't matter as much as fineness).
If I needed something more coarse than a shapton 1k...well, I wouldn't. But I guess if I had a hankering to buy something, it would be a 400 grit diamond hone that I could also use to flatten the above stones.
Well, thatīs another "what is the best system"-question, isnīt it?
If money is no object, buy one full set of hones from either shapton, naniwa or Norton.
Depending on what your preferences are, decide or get them all :D
You can not go wrong with the shaptons. You get a lot for your money.
But there is no reason to neglect the Naniwas. Regardless of Glasstone vs. Pro, or Superstone vs. Chosera.
They all have their distinct properties and they all are limited in performance only by your level of skill
I bought a semi full set of Shapton Glasstones from 1k to 30k and would certainly do it again.
For restoration work, add the 500 Shapton.
My recommendation (based on my preferences): Shapton GS 0.5, 1, 3, 6, 8, 10 (or 16) and 30k
One of the more expensive sets. Keep in mind, Naniwa 400, 1, 3, 5, 8 10 (or 12) will perform similar
If money were no object I'd get a set of Chosera's and every Escher I could get my hands on.
If I were new to honing and ready to take the plunge and money were no object, I believe I would get a good set of synthetic stones, wether it be Norton, Naniwa or Shapton, in the following grits; 1k, 4k and 8k. I would also get a decent blue/yello Belgian Combo and a Thuringian from the natural stone spectrum.Quote:
Originally Posted by BertyBloggs
Once I learned to hone and maximize an edge on the consistency of the synthetics, I would learn the nature of the naturals.
The one other thing I might add is a DMT 325 for severe problem razors that need a lot of metal removed quickly.
If money was no object, I'd put Max or Lynn on retainer.
This would probably be the smart money. Let someone else do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by holli4pirating
You beat me to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by holli4pirating
If you ain't first you're last....Quote:
Originally Posted by adrspach
OP: After you're done running through all of the natural and synthetic hones available on this planet, I will gladly buy some of them from you at a heavily discounted price to help save space in your shaving den. You don't have to thank me :D
I was thinking the same before writing my answer to the topic. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by ndw76
All of 'em should be mine
If money was no object;
I would open up "Hone-Mart" and only SRP members could be employees.:beer1:
well I would buy every good natural stone that I could of good quality, Escher, thuringen, Japaneese natuals but I think what you are trying to say is what would we buy if we could just get one of each grit.
well, I would never buy a shapton stone but I would get a set of Chosera's every grit I could get, I would still keep my norton 4k/8k and the finest escher I can get for finishing. as well as my dmt 325 for lapping of course I would have slurry stones for every stone I had.
If money was no object I'd have my own personal barber... amongst other things :)
Rusty eBay bargain... Well that is going to take more thanQuote:
Originally Posted by BertyBloggs
just sharpening hones:
Tumblers or buffing wheels (OK both). I would ask Lynn or Glenn here.
Dust catching system...
Tools to remove repair or replace scales.
Tools to make and finish scales.
Tools to replace scales.
If the blade has any chips a well
used DMT or a new fine DMT to remove
a lot of steel yet keep the profile straight.
Electrical tape to manage spine wear.
Next to sharpen: Chosera Stones 400 grit, 1000 grit,
3000 grit, 5000 grit and 10000 grit. In this mix I would
add a Nanaiwa Snow White 8K hone and a 2K green brick
fromNanaiwa I like the Chosera line from Nanaiwa because
they are denser than the Superstones. I very much like my
10K Chosera and only on rare occasion visit my 12k Nanaiwa.
I might be convinced to go for the full Shapton Glass
set. It is one sexy set of hones. For those that
have to ask a Shapton Glass set makes sense because
I am told they "just work".Check with Glenn (gssixgun)
on this. Hones that 'just work' make sense at a lot of levels.
I would have a couple flat plates of glass to use
with abrasive film and also with slurry. An extreme
flat honing solution helps when recovering an occasional
eBay challenge.
These all need a lap to keep flat. A BIG DMT
will do the trick.
After a 10k or 12K hone A big balsa
strop pasted with CrOx or perhaps CeOx
to polish the bevel.
Next I would love to have a good hard felt strop
pasted with submicron spray to put a final
polish on the edge.
Then I need a strop... fine canvas
and quality leather. The problem with strops
is that a new one takes a while to settle in.
So add some well scaled Dovo razors to settle
the strops in with.
Some razors do like a hone finer than 10k-12k
for these I like a spiderco ultra fine sprayed
with 0.5micron cubic boron nitride and then hone with
a dilution strategy. I suspect the better natural
finishers could idle my Spidy but I would
have to audition a lot of them.
Oh wait -- Glenn, Lynn, Max and a dozen
others already have all of these. And for a
modest fee will apply their skill as well.
Was brought up to be a carpenter/cabinet maker and worked every school holiday with my grandfather. first thing I had to learn was how to look after my tools. then the correct way to sharpen them including all the intrcate carving chisels used including how to strop them using crocus powder (iron oxide). after a few years on the sites with my father I wanted a change so went back to collage to become an engineer. working as this for the rest of my life till an industrial injury broke 4 vertebrae in my spine. Then I worked for Snap-on tools till mobility issues ended my working career. This has left me with alot of tools both to clean polish metal and fabricate scales. so now to hopefully help a little to supliment my DLA, and to give interest back to my life. I am looking at small items to repair or re manufacture for resale. Due to an interest in shaving, knives, sharpening etc I hope to be able to do this here.
Thanks to all you guys for your advice and realise "money no object" was the wrong term to use sorry!
I will be ordering a set of shapton ceramic stones as these look alot lighter than others which will make them easier for me. thanks again as I didn't know they exsisted. going to start my collection with 4k, 8k,16k and possibly 30k. unless I can find a second hand norton 4k, 8k in which case I will just get shapton 16k, 30k
I would love to send a blade to lynn for his expert treatment and when I find that 'one' its on its way! May well send another with it for an expert appraisal before he finishes the job for me.
I would drive about 3 hours north/west of my location to visit with Jim at The Japan Blade. Coming home the rear of my nissan murano would be 5 or 6 inches closer to the ground!
If money was no object, I would buy the quarries of coticule, the charnley forest, thuringian, WOA and TOS, and a few mines in Kyoto. There has to be some stone in there, dig it up, and put my name on them. Sell a few after testing, and keep the rest (the best) :) If this is not an option, I would buy as many water of ayr and Charnley forest as possible, with the intention to keep one or two of each, the pieces I would prefer, then, fly in Japan, and search for the nakayama pieces that the pre1300AD Daymios kept as treasures. The certain thing if money was no object is, I would never ever stop a razor or any kind of sharp blade I have. I would finish them on the finest stones money can buy!
Skip the 30k shapton for now unless you get a bargain on a full kit.Quote:
Originally Posted by BertyBloggs
It is a boat load of money and I doubt most will see the value.
If you skip the 30k or not do not skip the 1k and perhaps one slightly
coarser (500 grit). You will not use the 500 grit much but
if you need it you need it.
The Norton 4k/8k combo is a work horse and a lot of value for the
money but not the only choice. The norton 1000 grit works well when paired with
a large extra coarse DMT to keep it flat. A big DMT can be replaced with
a flat bit of steel or a granite tile and some 3M wet dry to lap on. Lapping
is often over done but has value.
Have glass surface protector for kitchen I use for lapping woodwoking hones with wet & dry I have meny for woodworking from 250 to 600 approx all oil stones. but feel sure with some brake cleaner to remove oil from blades and a good wash after these could be utilised on very damaged blades couldn't they ?
Also the rule I was told when lapping was to use wet & dry of half the value of the stone is this still a good rule of thumb for water stones ?
If money was no objection, how much cars would you buy for the purpose of driving?Quote:
Originally Posted by BertyBloggs
If money was no objection, I would still have only the stones I have now to to the things you describe.
Sure, I might buy another finisher or try another brand of stone, but for the purpose of getting a job done, you really don't need that much to work with.
For restoration (which is what I do) you 'need' (to do it without undue effort) a flattening stone, a 1000K synthetic. A 4000/8000 synthetic or equivalent (which can be a coticule for example) and a finisher.
Getting more of each will not really improve what you are doing.
EDIT:
Also, if you are learning how to hone, skip the 30K and even the 16K for now. If you cannot get a comfortable shave off an 8K stone, then there is no point in going higher.
Since we recommend oiling razors to protect from rust do notQuote:
Originally Posted by BertyBloggs
worry about oil from your oil stones. Wipe with a shop rag, papertowel
or tissue paper and you are fine. Even common soap and water is OK.
90+% of the reason to lap is to flatten the hone.
After removing about half a sheet of paper thickness
I am good to go most days. On my fine grit hones I often
reach for the manufacturers rubbing stone or a smaller old
well worn DMT to soften the surface. The little credit card
size DMTs are good for this and less expensive than the
large DMT that makes "flat" possible.
Most water stones are a lot softer than other hones. After lapping,
if you are concerned in less than 30 seconds a small bar of common
normal steel you can worry away any lumps and bumps left from lapping
and begin breaking the slurry down for the razor.
Back to "brake cleaner": removing all the surface oil
will invite rust. Same for alcohol and other disinfectant
solutions. Always rinse the razor clean and lightly
oil before storage. Other tricks are possible but
you get the idea: do not hand sand and polish for a week,
hone, strop then three days later find a red/ black rusty mess.
I'm lucky money is an object, i think i already have shares with Max and Alex :p
But if money was no object i would still have what i have now and i love me Shapton glass stones... But i would have one hell of a nice jnat finisher, maybe something with a little Karasu. But its nice to dream about the things we want :p
I'd buy what I use now:
- DMT XX 120 - for lapping and knife, almost never used for a razor.
- DMT X 325 - fine lapping and heavy work on razors.
- DMT E 1200 - setting razor edges, fine wood working tools.
- DMT EE 8000 - razors and the finest wood tools (like cross-cutting softwood); on knives only to show off.
- A barber hone or Shapton 16 - finishing a razor edge. I usually prefer a Frictionite 00 barber hone over the Shapton for ease of use.
If all I sharpened was razors, I could get by with 1k, 8k, and a barber hone or CrOx.
Amen...Quote:
Originally Posted by EisenFaust
Stingray
I have all the Shapton stones and love them but have recently discovered the welch purple slate stones and they are quite nice and I use them often (my favorite is a 8"x4"and is nearly 2 inches thick...it weighs about 5 pounds). I also have a coticule and a set of Nortons but I have used the DMT 1200 to set a bevel and clean up chips frowns and smiles with great success.
I have Naniwa SS, Norton, and Shapton sets. Very few razors can handle the 30K, lets say about 1%. My "go-to" recipe is Chosera 1K, Shapton GS 2,4,8,16, followed by Escher.
I do think I'm going to piece together a Chosera set as I love the 1K.
If money was no object I'd wouldn't buy any stones. I'd buy a new razor and have it sharpened by a honemeister and when it got dull I'd just throw it away and buy another.
I would not throw the razor away. Just have it honed again. For me, most stuff, the longer in use, the more emotional value it gets.
i would like the whole line up of the shapton pro's
If money was no object I would make Glen an offer he could not refuse for his entire stable of hones! : ) And I would stop by
Alex's place on the drive home and pick out about 20 beautie's from his collection.
Let's not forget to pay Jimmy a visit. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by lz6
As a matter of fact if money were no object I'd have a staff to find every available razor in the world and buy them all. Then you would have to come to me and buy at my prices-har har.
I would buy all the "rustic" coticules on The Superior Shave website. I LOVE those stones.
Attachment 94314
.... it seemed appropriate
If money were no object, I would put disposable razor companies out of business so that every man and woman would know what a nice shave is all about...
