Shapton 1k/King 1k for bevel setting

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10-28-2011, 03:36 PM
TZee

Shapton 1k/King 1k for bevel setting

Yes, I know Chosera rules, and yes, I know that most of us do not need dedicated bevel setters.

Now, if finishing with a moderate speed coticule, would you choose a cheap King 1k + DMT credit card (for slurry), or a Shapton 1k glass and wet-dry sandpaper. The DMT 325 of course is the best, but let's consider budget. If you go with the former option, you come out around $50, whereas the Shapton 1k by itself costs that much, without the need of a slurry creator.

I'm looking to alleviate the pain of resetting a bevel on a moderate speed coticule, not restore Ebay specials, or massive chips. I've seen Glen use that King 1k like it was a children's toy, so it caught my attention. However, the Shapton 1k glass seems to be closer in performance to the Chosera at almost half the price. If I go the Shapton 1k route, can I get away with just that and some 320 grit wet-dry sandpaper, or will I have to get the whole stoneholder shebang?
10-28-2011, 03:46 PM
jeness

You don't need the Shapton stone holder to use it. I would go with the Shapton, faster metal moving capability, less flattening. You can't go wrong with the King either, so it depends on you. You have to soak the king, and it will be slower.
10-28-2011, 03:47 PM
Blix

My vote would go for King 1k and the DMT 325, as the DMT is an essential(IMO) tool for keeping your stone flat, not just for creating slurry.
10-28-2011, 03:49 PM
TZee

For clarification, I was referring to the type of stoneholder Glen uses in his videos. I think they're around $19. The Shapton 1k glass makes more sense to me for $20 more than the King considering the speed benefits. I'm wondering what you need to get working. For example, I've seen people who buy the Chosera 1k and some sandpaper and are ready to go.

(EDIT: If you buy the DMT 325, you pretty much need the holder too, right?)
10-28-2011, 03:51 PM
gssixgun

A break down of the 1k's "In my Experience" this is just wet, and does not reflect the use of slurry

Chosera = Fast, Smooth, Hard,
Naniwa = Medium, Smooth, Soft
Shapton = Medium, Medium, Hard
Norton = Medium, Medium, Medium
King = Slow, Smooth, Soft
DMT1200 = Fast, Rough, Hard

Hardness, reflects only when honing multiple razors, and rarely on heavy wedge work
Speed, reflects again when honing multiple razors, and for impatient honers :)
Smoothness (depth) of the scratches, reflects on how much work the next stone in your progression has to do..
ie: if you are using a small step progression like the Naniwa SS 1-3-5-8-10-12 or the Shapton GS 1-2-4-6-8-16-30 then the smoothness is not a big deal but if you are using the "One Stone Hone" systems like Lynn's and mine or the Coti systems then the smoother you come off the bevel setters the easier the work is...
10-28-2011, 03:56 PM
TZee

Glen, you've forced me to choose between the King 1k, Naniwa 1k, and the Chosera 1k now. I intentionally left out the DMT 1200 because I know it's vulgar. Hell, it has a potty mouth when it comes to metal removal.

How much slower is the King 1k than say the Naniwa 1k. I'm attempting the one hone system with a moderate speed coticule.
10-28-2011, 04:00 PM
gssixgun

Quote:

Originally Posted by TZee

Glen, you've forced me to choose between the King 1k, Naniwa 1k, and the Chosera 1k now. I intentionally left out the DMT 1200 because I know it's vulgar. Hell, it has a potty mouth when it comes to metal removal.

How much slower is the King 1k than say the Naniwa 1k. I'm attempting the one hone system with a moderate speed coticule.

Toss a coin then :) those two would be my choices for what you are doing, as both are great when you add the slurry in, which helps get you the "feel of the steel" when using a "One Stone System"

The DMT 325 is indispensable on the honing bench so if either one allows for that in your budget, then get that one ...

edit: Without a doubt the Chosera is the best of the bunch but at it's price it better be :)
10-28-2011, 04:13 PM
Scipio

Question is: how many bevels do you need to set? I rarely need it save for new acquisitions, which in my fourth year of straight shaving is 2-3 per annum. Therefore touch ups are my main concern.

It is for this reason I never felt the need to expand my bevel setters beyond my King 800 which I follow with a Naniwa 3K, which in itself can set bevels.

The King 800 does the trick for me. It may be slower than others and it is extremely thirsty but it is a blue blooded workhorse. If I were honing professionally, then yes, I'd go for the Chosera. It is quicker, and Birnando was kind enough to let me try it out at the last UK razorcon. I also used Stu's Shapton 1k which I thought was equally great.
10-28-2011, 04:50 PM
TZee

Have any of you successfully lapped a King 1k with 320 grit wet-dry sandpaper, and how long did it take? Was it a PITA?

I don't set many bevels ATM, but I want that option available to me in the future. I consider it a standard tool as I only use a coticule, and need something faster to get going.
10-28-2011, 05:05 PM
Slartibartfast

The DMT 325 is such a useful tool. I would go with the King 1k and that if the choice is dmt/no dmt.

The king 1k is not that bad and can be sped up with slurry. If you are doing a "restoration bevel set", you will definitely notice the slowness though.
10-28-2011, 05:09 PM
PensacolaTiger

No, it's not a PITA, nothing like flattening a Chinese 12k, but the time it will take depends on how dished the stone was when you started. The job will go faster if you use drywall screen rather than wet/dry, but it shouldn't take more that ten to twenty minutes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TZee

Have any of you successfully lapped a King 1k with 320 grit wet-dry sandpaper, and how long did it take? Was it a PITA?

I don't set many bevels ATM, but I want that option available to me in the future. I consider it a standard tool as I only use a coticule, and need something faster to get going.
10-28-2011, 05:21 PM
gssixgun

TZ yer getting into the realm of what is sometimes referred to as "Analysis Paralysis" where you start to over think things, rest assured that any of the 1k's will work just fine, even for professional honing, I have used a Norton 1k on over 3000 razors easily in fact I wore one out and I am well into my second one :)
The only "wrong" choice for razors IMHO of all of them is the DMT 1200 and there are people that would argue that point with me too :fim: Pick the system that fits your budget the best, and as you have seen from many of us if you can in any way fit a 8x3 DMT 325 plate into that budget it will be worth it.
10-28-2011, 05:24 PM
TZee

Glen, I'm actually content with the King 1k for my needs. I was trying to be sneaky and avoid all of the "extras" for now. It looks like I'm forced to get the DMT 325 (D8C), a holder, and the King 1k, which puts me ~ $120, if purchased at Woodcraft.
10-28-2011, 05:38 PM
gssixgun

Yep I am seeing 26.99 for the King and 64.99 on the DMT

the holder is the cheapest here Amazon.com: Steelex D1091 Sharpening Stone Holder: Home Improvement that I have found anyway

You can find the DMT for in the low $50's online and the King for $19 but with shipping it will pretty much be a wash I am assuming you can walk into a Woodcraft store...

ps: You can always use 320 grit wet-r-dry but it is messy and time consuming, but it works just fine, BTW if yer married leaving the sandpaper, flat plate, and red stone mess in the laundry room sink is detrimental to a good marriage :)
10-28-2011, 05:40 PM
Slartibartfast

1 Attachment(s)

Attachment 81416

Quote:

Originally Posted by TZee

Glen, I'm actually content with the King 1k for my needs. I was trying to be sneaky and avoid all of the "extras" for now. It looks like I'm forced to get the DMT 325 (D8C), a holder, and the King 1k, which puts me ~ $120, if purchased at Woodcraft.

..............................
10-28-2011, 05:41 PM
Blix

DMT D8C is $46.99 at SRD.
10-28-2011, 05:42 PM
TZee

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blix

DMT D8C is $46.99 at SRD.

With shipping it comes out to ~$59. Of course I could always spend $100 to get free shipping.
10-29-2011, 02:30 AM
avatar1999

As Glen said, MANY of us have invested in the D8C (325) and yes, it is worth the expense. Look it up on Amazon, they usually have good prices and usually qualifies for the free shipping. I would spend the money for the D8C any day over the other lapping options out there.
10-29-2011, 03:52 AM
PA23-250

In the long run, the D8C is cheaper than going through all that sandpaper too. Something else to consider, plus the big mess & waste part.
10-29-2011, 09:27 AM
jeness

+1 on the DMT. Only stone I NEVER regretted buying. There are a lot of stones I have sold and bought again, but never the DMT, that stone is the foundation of a well made honing station :)
11-03-2011, 02:17 AM
onimaru55

Quote:

Originally Posted by TZee

or a Shapton 1k glass and wet-dry sandpaper.

If you want a 1k finish on your bevel you will have to consider that 320 grit sandpaper particles will mix into your slurry. Less risk of that with a well worn diamond plate.
11-03-2011, 02:29 AM
zib

Quote:

Originally Posted by avatar1999

As Glen said, MANY of us have invested in the D8C (325) and yes, it is worth the expense. Look it up on Amazon, they usually have good prices and usually qualifies for the free shipping. I would spend the money for the D8C any day over the other lapping options out there.

The DMT 8C is my second wife !
11-03-2011, 02:33 AM
zib

Quote:

Originally Posted by zib

The DMT 8C is my second wife !

Seriously though, It's a good hone, (The King 1k) a bit slow, love the feel and feedback from it. Slurry will speed things up. I keep the King in a stone holder, and my DMT 8c, I do a couple of figure 8's with DMT on the king (Ala Gssixgun) Works fine, lasts a long time....
11-03-2011, 02:56 AM
TZee

To update the thread, I've obtained a DMT 325 and a nice 1k.

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