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I know this has been asked before but I want some current advice. I have a Norton 4k/8k, and need to get a finishing stone. I am very inexperienced at honing, so in your opinion, what is the more forgiving finishing stone out of the following?
Coticule vs. Chinese finishing stone vs. a Japanese 12k stone?
Quote:
Originally Posted by supersco
Until you can get a perfectly smooth shave off the Norton 8k alone, any of the finishing stones would be a total waste of time and money :(
Any recommendation about those 3 stones are but personal opinion, so it really doesn't matter between the three at this point in time ...
Later on, you can choose any of them, or all of them, as they all work quite well after the Norton 8k
I started with the Norton set. I would suggest the Naniwa 12k SS. The one thing I would suggest is that you make sure the razor is shaving well off the Norton 8k before you move to the finisher. I have been honing for a little over a year now and still test shave after the 8k before moving on. In my limited experience if it doesn't shave comfortably off the 8k the finisher won't do much for you.
I should point out that at this point I'm just looking to touch-up the edge, not set a bevel or anything. Does that make a difference in recommendations?
All three of those would work for touch ups as would a simple barber's hone or pasted strop.Quote:
Originally Posted by supersco
I think Glen’s comments are spot on. When I first started I bought a complete set of hones, including a finisher. But I discovered that there were too many variables to digest all at once and my progress was slow, laborious, and frustrating at times. My honing skills really didn’t start to solidify until I put the finisher away and focused exclusively on the Nortons.
I also agree w/ Glen about the 8k.
After that, I'd recommend the Naniwa 12k over your other possibilities. I think it's the best choice because: 1) Quality is consistent. Your N12k will behave like everyone else's. Not all coticules are good finishers, nor are all PHIGs. 2) The N12k is a nice big hone, same dimensions as your Norton. A coticule that big, if you could even find one, would cost many hundreds of dollars. 3) The N12k needs no soaking, no slurry, and works very fast for as fine as it is. Just moisten the surface and go. 4) It's easy to lap. So are coticules, but PHIGs can be an ordeal.
Best wishes.
The 8K you already have. You need to experience getting the razor to it's best edge using the 4k/8k. If you don't have the best edge a finisher will only be polishing the bevel and the edge will not be any better off. When I started straight shaving a few years ago the 8k was considered the finishing hone and I got a lot of nice shaves off of it. I doubt I would like going back to the 8k as a finisher but it did take a bit of time for me to learn that I needed to go further on the 8k before I hit the finishing hone. If you have money to burn and the patients of a saint have at it and get a coticule, C12k, Escher or other finisher but I would wait until I got really good shaves off the 8k hone first. Good luck.
So the consensus seems to be stick with the 8K? Will the 8K be enough for just touch ups? Barber hones seem to be pretty cheap and now am wondering about them too....
There's a Woodcraft store on Bethel Rd in Columbus. They carry nicely finished C12k's for $23.00. They're a perfectly nice start, and slow enough to be very forgiving.
Quote:
Originally Posted by supersco
Most barbers hones are only around 8k so you're better off just sticking with what you've got.
I have to agree with the majority here. First learn to get very good edges off the Norton 8K. If the edge is not very good off an 8K then a finishing stone will not be a magic wand.
The Norton 8K is easily capable of touching up an edge.
You have all you need to get very good shaves.
I agree, hone your honing abilities, and when you are satisfied, you can proceed to the next step. I would suggest you to stay away from the Jnats, for a decent quality one you will have to pay the price of an escher. Btw I learned how to hone with a BBW and a C12k and I still use them. Of course, you can just use a strop with some pastes after the norton combo. It's easier for the less experienced, and cheaper.
Thanks for the replies. I will stick with the Norton for now. I am definitely having trouble with it though :-\
What trouble? We're here to help.
Well, I made a lot of mistakes I think, from not lapping my new Norton, to starting with tape but taking it off. Lots of hone wear on the spine on this thing, I may have made it worse I didn't check how bad it was before I started. Sigh.
I've started a new thread in the proper hone section, since this stuff doesn't really have to do with finishing stones, and people have already convinced me not to bother with them yet.
Norton hone has very good guidelines for use.
First lap the 4k white side until its very smooth, make take a few lappings.
When honing on 4k stay on it until you can cut armhair midlength easily, not grabbing.
Move to 8k
If you see black on the 8k STOP, you went to the 8k too soon, move back to 4k.
Only go and stay on the 8k when its clear and no swarf is coming off on the hone, make 20-30 light strokes on the 8k
As far as the condition of the razor, you'll see to post pictures.
If you use the pyramid method (look it up in the Wiki) then taping will be a bit of a hassle, since you should change your tape every time you change grit. That's the one argument that would convince me to not-tape a worn spine.
It sounds like you've found what happens when you start with tape then change your mind... nothing at all at the blade's edge! By removing the tape midway you shifted all honing activity back away from the edge and just honed the bevel.
I'd suggest that you relabel this razor as your "learning blade" and order something shave-ready from whipped dog. Use the new one as your reference point--this is how sharp a razor SHOULD be--and work on your current one to get it up to shaving snuff.
Do you have a pasted strop? That may help bridge the gap between your 8k and whatever Larry finishes his whippeddog blades on. Or, you could see if he'll sell you one he's finished just on a Norton 8k, for specific comparison to your own work.
My own first honing success came from scrupulously following the Wiki instructions for bevel setting and the 4k/8k pyramid. I'd try that, without tape.
If there's a meetup near you, go go go! The best way to learn honing is in person. Check our google map to see if there's anyone near you who can help.
Good luck and best wishes.
I got my level 5 jnat for 100 sterling and its plenty big enough for the job. I find mine a very easy hone to use in comparison to coticules, although the naturals require a bit of a learning curve the coticules I find require a higher level of skill. Whilst I can see reasons for steering away from naturals as a beginner, the jnat in my experience gives phenomenal edges once learned as well as ease yielding those results.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasilis
Naturals can vary but all stones have to be learned and need to get to know how they respond.
Thanks to all for this thread. I learned some useful tips.