What is it about naturals?

While I was replying to a different thread, I came back to a question that I've asked myself a thousand times and can't give myself any real answer to: what is it about natural stones that is so freakin' intriguing? I have no idea what it is. I've never had any real interest in geology... actually to the point that I've said before, and am a firm believer that, "The gem industry is proof positive that human beings aren't anywhere near as civilized as we'd like to think we are. We are still willing to lie, cheat, steal, and kill for shiny objects." But, you take that same thing, a rock, and make it to where it can be used as an extremely precise tool? I'm almost obsessed in my fascination with it. Like I said, I can't put my finger on it, but whatever it is, it seems like there are quite a few other people who feel the same way. So maybe the real question is, "What is it about me that makes me fascinated with smooth rocks?" haha

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Originally Posted by kamikazeproject

While I was replying to a different thread, I came back to a question that I've asked myself a thousand times and can't give myself any real answer to: what is it about natural stones that is so freakin' intriguing? I have no idea what it is. I've never had any real interest in geology... actually to the point that I've said before, and am a firm believer that, "The gem industry is proof positive that human beings aren't anywhere near as civilized as we'd like to think we are. We are still willing to lie, cheat, steal, and kill for shiny objects." But, you take that same thing, a rock, and make it to where it can be used as an extremely precise tool? I'm almost obsessed in my fascination with it. Like I said, I can't put my finger on it, but whatever it is, it seems like there are quite a few other people who feel the same way. So maybe the real question is, "What is it about me that makes me fascinated with smooth rocks?" haha

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For me the two main reasons I like them is for the honing feel is very hard to reproduce with synthetic and the results at the end. I could easily get by with synthetics and get similar results but the differences between the two are palpable on the face and on the hone.

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Originally Posted by Kingfish

For me the two main reasons I like them is for the honing feel is very hard to reproduce with synthetic and the results at the end. I could easily get by with synthetics and get similar results but the differences between the two are palpable on the face and on the hone.

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Oh yeah, I'm totally with you. The touch feedback isn't even in the same ballpark between the two. The thing is though, I'm not even talking about the difference between synthetics and naturals. Let me put it another way... even though each different synthetic hone, even if they're the same grit, acts and performs differently; I don't have any desire to have each different brand's 12,000 grit stone. In the same breath, though... show me ten different natural stones of relatively the same grit and I want every one of them. Actually, screw that... show me ten of the same type of natural stone and I want every one of them. Somebody says to me, "Hey, I've got ten 12,000 grit stones by every manufacturer that makes them; or I have ten Idwal's that look roughly the same." I'm gonna choose the latter.

Whatever it is it's not in the rocks, it's in your head :)

They call it HAD in it's best.:rock:

+1 and What Gugi and adrspach said "in your head and you have HAD". :)

I think seriously it is the endless variety of the natural world that produces rocks makes each one succesful in there individual capacity. It is like taking a walk on your own path in a beautiful setting, the forest, the desert... you pick and you get to respond the the delicate nuances, feels and feedback of each individual stone. There are so many levels of why individuals like naturals and why is one of the reasons that so much information is available here at SRP.
Professionals and passionate amatuers at all levels join, contribute and lurke here probably more than any place I know to get the best information currently available.

I suppose everyone has some similar and some different reasoning here. I like synths and I like naturals. I like the challenges that come from using either or mixing them up. I like variety too - why be limited in scope and choice? I can't say I get better edges from one of the other based on their origin; wheither it was a test tube or a mountainside in Japan. I think - for me - to subscribe to one single channel of thought would be too restrictive. I do find that synths have fewer secrets - but that's as much as asset as it is a liability. I don't hone so much that I would ever get bored with using synths but I do think that the predictability removes some of the mystique that is found when using a Coticule or a Jnat. Not all the mystique - there's alway technique to add into using the stones so there's always a bit of mystery I suppose.
One thing though - looking at a synth on the table is not nearly as exciting as looking at a pretty (highly figured) Jnat.. or Coti. I'm a very visual person so this factors into my story. Eschers are basically boring to look for the most part but they do have their home-spun charms.. labels, saw cut marks, etc.
Lets not forget smell - honing on a Coticule (and other naturals) puts up a certain essence that's not found in any of the Synths I've tried. Some may like it and others may hate it - but I love it. It reminds of when I was hunting stones in quarries with my grandfather back in the 60's. The smell of wet stone is a powerful reminder of those days for me.

Naturals are God's way of telling you you have too much money. :)

Personally, for me, I just like the feel of naturals better when I finish with them and shave. I like the smoothness they offer, especially coticules, escher/thuringians, and finally Japanese stones. For my face it's hard to reproduce the finish of a natural stone compared to say a Shapton 16K. Do you need them? Nope... you can get by with synthetic stones and a synthetic finisher just fine.

Most men prefer naturals, but the artificial ones are pretty nice too. :dropjaw:

Oh, you meant hones. Sorry about that!

A coticule used by the Romans and other ancient blade lovers brings us into the nostalgia of when men were men!

But I don't think that they are superior to artificial stones.

I still finish with my Naniwa 12k. I bet any Centurion would gladly trade his coticule for my Naniwa.

:tu

My favorite saying now

"Synthetic hones are an exact science, Natural stones are a romance"

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Originally Posted by gugi

Whatever it is it's not in the rocks, it's in your head :)

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It may be the rocks in my head.

I remember when I was a kid we'd get presents at birthdays - things you'd asked for and knew about. You know, like a bike or a Tonka truck or Lego or a Six Million Dollar Man action figure with ratcheting arm and magnifying eye. I even asked for and got an Evel Kneviel action figure complete with motorcycle on one birthday that was pretty cool.

But you know what caused me to almost wet myself with excitement? Much to the chagrin of my parents, it was the 10 cent Lucky Dip. Something about paying the money and shoving my hand into the basket of unknown just sent me off.

I find it is the same with hones now. Yes, synthetics are cool and work very well and are consistent and do a great job. Just like the 6 million dollar man or the tonka truck. You know what you are getting and you are getting good stuff.

But give me a shot at the unknown and the unfathomable natural hone, and I am all over it like a kid on fairy floss!

James.

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Originally Posted by gugi

Whatever it is it's not in the rocks, it's in your head :)

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Or another-words you have rocks in your head.

I have a geology background and am a rockhound from way back so that's my excuse but in the end you can get the same result with synthetics and man-mades. That's my story.

I just think it's neat. How's that for scientific and explainable?

Thanks! Now I get to acquire even more stuff in the name of better shaving!:hmmm:

"But honey... I don't have any natural hones!":)

Well, the synthetics are an imitation of the naturals. For the synthetics that took maybe one day or one month for someone to make, and for the naturals, it took some millions maybe billions of years to become what they are today. Something that long before human as he is today existed, and possibly long after the end of out existence. Another way I see it is like comparing diamonds with cubic zirconia. Both do the job. And the wife will not notice the difference, the first couple of years at least, but their price is not the only factor. And last, the naturals is what reminds us all the beautiful things good old days had, with the ideal amount of technology :p. I know, for most of you sounds silly, but that's how I see it.
Also, naturals is a very very good investment. In 50 years it will be easier to find a unicorn's horn than a natural hone of any kind.

Post 16 reminds me of a funny thing the other night,was lapping in the kitchin sink as it was to friggen cold in the shop.
Hones are sitting on the counter top and the wife comes by,she knows what they are used for and that I love them almost as much as her.
her next comment really cracked me up,and made me think,She said:with all of the money you have tied up in those things.why are some of them fake and some real,shook my head and went to bed.

I think the natural variation is part of the intrigue in the fact that humans are unnerved by the unknown and must know what every rock can do.
I also think that part of it is man's need to "conquer" nature in his knowledge, desire to control and utilize it to his needs rather than leave it be.

Rob: if you need my shipping address to dispose of your spiritual burden please let me know.

I was just thinking how we refer to the man made as synthetics but they aren't. If they were what are they synthetics of? Not a coticule, not an escher, not anything really. They are just man made honers. For them to be synthetic they would have to be exactly like the original like synthetic Sapphire or Diamonds. Probably a diamond pasted strop is one of the few truly synthetic media.

If I may be crude, honing on naturals is like sex without a condom. Each "stone" feels different when you take the synthetics off.

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

I was just thinking how we refer to the man made as synthetics but they aren't. If they were what are they synthetics of? Not a coticule, not an escher, not anything really. They are just man made honers. For them to be synthetic they would have to be exactly like the original like synthetic Sapphire or Diamonds. Probably a diamond pasted strop is one of the few truly synthetic media.

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They are synthetic stones--they are made to approximate the abrasive effect of natural stones that existed before. Synthetic does NOT mean an exact replica-it vaguely means "something produced by people." Synthetic fibers are not exact replicas of silk or cotton, synthetic languages (Esperanto, Elvish, etc.) are not exact copies of real languages, etc. but they are made to do the job of something natural. Thus, synthetic hones are exactly that.

It appeals to the inner caveman in all of us.

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Originally Posted by Gamma

Lets not forget smell - honing on a Coticule (and other naturals) puts up a certain essence that's not found in any of the Synths I've tried. Some may like it and others may hate it - but I love it. It reminds of when I was hunting stones in quarries with my grandfather back in the 60's. The smell of wet stone is a powerful reminder of those days for me.

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+1 on this often overlooked characteristic.

I get very faint - if any - scent from my cotis. My jnats on the other hand produce a distinct clay-like scent when I use them - naturally, the softer the stone, the more pronounced the scent.

I don't mind the scent at all and at times even enjoy it. My wife, on the other hand, is a different story: For some reason the slightest hint of that clay odor from my j-nats - even just a few strokes of the naguras on my hardest stone - causes my wife's sinuses to go haywire - resulting in uncontrollable sneezing fits as well as a headache...

Needless to say, it limits me to either honing out on our deck in the warmer months or when see is not home during the winter months.

interesting about the smell,I smoke when I hone,all I can smell is cigarettes:(

I have rarely used a natural stone and never for a razor. I do prefer the synthetic emeralds, rubies and diamonds (not cubic zirconia) to their natural counterpart. They are cleaner clearer and crisper. I like the naturals for a different reason, they have impurities. That gives them a character the synths miss and that gives them "life" so to speak. A synthetic should be perfect every time, therefore perform just like the last one (in theory).

Jeff

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Originally Posted by JimR

They are synthetic stones--they are made to approximate the abrasive effect of natural stones that existed before. Synthetic does NOT mean an exact replica-it vaguely means "something produced by people." Synthetic fibers are not exact replicas of silk or cotton, synthetic languages (Esperanto, Elvish, etc.) are not exact copies of real languages, etc. but they are made to do the job of something natural. Thus, synthetic hones are exactly that.

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With rocks and minerals the general connotation is synthetic are exact like lab created diamonds and rubies and emeralds and other creations while the stuff that looks like the real thing but isn't is artificial. So, if you set out to make a synthetic coti it would have to be exactly the same save maybe a few impurities. Of course when you make a hone it isn't intended to be a synthetic or a natural it's just a hone so the notion of synthetic doesn't come into play. It's just a man made hone. Think back in the old days when they made fake diamonds out of paste. They looked very close to the real thing but those were artificial. These days they can make the real thing in a furnace those are synthetic.

It's that you can never be sure that there isn't a better one out there. Better meaning finer, harder, able to meet the user's needs more quickly, able to fill a broader gap in one's progession, more aesthetically pleasing? Then there is the fact that many are 'extinct.' Naniwas, Shaptons etc are all of ordinary commerce and can be obtained relatively easily. Perhaps if they were to become discontinued, they would become of greater desire, like certain Barber Hones.

Naturals are just damn cool. Especially cotis and jnats. Each one is unique and offers something different

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Originally Posted by bloodhoundman

Naturals are just damn cool. Especially cotis and jnats. Each one is unique and offers something different

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You say that, but there is a Norton Barber hone which I currently want more than any natural. Birnando has the only example I have ever seen and he was kind enough to let me use it at the last UK Razorcon. Without doubt the most powerful hone in existence!

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Originally Posted by Scipio

You say that, but there is a Norton Barber hone which I currently want more than any natural. Birnando has the only example I have ever seen and he was kind enough to let me use it at the last UK Razorcon. Without doubt the most powerful hone in existence!

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I'm convinced that the only way to get one of those is to kill an Australian ax-man.

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Originally Posted by Theseus

I'm convinced that the only way to get one of those is to kill an Australian ax-man.

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Australian ax-man.

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Originally Posted by Theseus

I'm convinced that the only way to get one of those is to kill an Australian ax-man.

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That would be easier than trying to get it off Birnando! He's about 7 foot tall and takes no prisoners!

Can I watch?:rofl2:

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Originally Posted by Jimbo7

Australian ax-man.

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English T-axman. Harder to kill than the Australian variety :)

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Regards,
Neil

English Oxman?

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