Naniwa 12000 underperforming

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12-22-2011, 03:57 AM
MinATX

Naniwa 12000 underperforming

When I used my Naniwa 12000 to finish a blade that I was refreshing, it seemed that the blade actually lost sharpness after the 12000. I tested it after the Norton 8000 before moving on to the Naniwa 12000, and I could swear that the 12000 dulled the edge just a bit. It still shaves great after the 12000, but seems like it was sharper and smoother at the 8000 stage. This isn't the first time I've had this result. Although I have got the Naniwa to work wonders before, it seems very finicky to use.

Also, the Norton 8000 always feels smooth and silky, but the Naniwa has a more coarse feel when I pass the blade on it.

I don't soak either stone. I wet them before use.

Does the Naniwa need to be lapped, maybe? If so, what do you recommend that would freshen up the stone's surface without leaving abrasive stuck in the stone?

I use the Norton flattening stone for the Norton 8000, and haven't had problems with abrasive getting left behind. But something tells me the Naniwa might be different.

I also have one of the (now controversial) C12K/PHIG/Guangxi stones that performs at a level below the Norton 8000. I read somewhere before that they need considerable preparation before use, but I can't remember exactly what that involves.

Does anyone have advice on prepping and using the Naniwa 12000, or also the C12K?
12-22-2011, 04:25 AM
lz6

A Naniwa can provide an edge that is just fine. And yes it has to be lapped or you could very likely end up with your blade as you
described. I have not used Guangxi stones so I know nothing about them except they would need to be lapped as well.
You don't mention if you follow your 12k with a strop.
Take a look in the library section for a wealth of information on basics and advanced. On lapping:
Hone Lapping 101 - Straight Razor Place Wiki

Let us know how things work out.
12-22-2011, 04:43 AM
MinATX

To resharpen, I go Norton 8000, Naniwa 12000, a few passes on CrOx on a pasted paddle strop, then regular strop. I always test the blade after the 8000 to see if it is ready to move on, then after the 12000 to see if it is finished. Lately it seems that the edge is not quite as good after the 12000 as it used to be. So much so that the 8000 seems a bit better.
12-22-2011, 05:27 AM
mainaman

how many laps do you do on the 12k SS?
It is possible you over did the edge.
12-22-2011, 02:09 PM
MinATX

I do ten light X-strokes then check the sharpness.
I think I just need to lap the hone a bit. I just want to make sure I don't leave any abrasive behind from the flattening stone.
Maybe if I use my Norton flattening stone to clean it up, then scour the hone with a scotchbrite pad, that might scrub off any abrasive that stuck in the 12K stone.

Does anyone use something different that works better? I'm just looking for the most effective / surest way to clean up my 12K.
12-22-2011, 03:08 PM
Lynn

I think 5-10 strokes on the Naniwa are fine for both refreshing and finishing the honing regiment. Typically, I wet the stone till it quits drinking water and then use it. When done, I will gently lap it under running water with a GDLP or DMT 325 and then let it dry until the next use and this works well. I would definitely not use the Norton flattening plate on it. I have found in the past that when a finishing stone is not performing like I want, that it is usually my fault in that I am putting more pressure on the blade and not recognizing it. When that happens, I really pay attention to just the weight of the blade on the stone and usually I am back in business.

Have fun.
12-22-2011, 03:13 PM
mainaman

Quote:

Originally Posted by MinATX

I do ten light X-strokes then check the sharpness.
I think I just need to lap the hone a bit. I just want to make sure I don't leave any abrasive behind from the flattening stone.
Maybe if I use my Norton flattening stone to clean it up, then scour the hone with a scotchbrite pad, that might scrub off any abrasive that stuck in the 12K stone.

Does anyone use something different that works better? I'm just looking for the most effective / surest way to clean up my 12K.

how do you check the sharpness, shave test?
12-22-2011, 03:21 PM
MinATX

Quote:

Originally Posted by mainaman

how do you check the sharpness, shave test?

I wet a spot on my face and see how the blade shaves.

Sorry if I don't give any more replies. I'll be away from my computer for a couple days. Thanks for your help, guys.
12-22-2011, 03:28 PM
mainaman

Quote:

Originally Posted by MinATX

I wet a spot on my face and see how the blade shaves.

Sorry if I don't give any more replies. I'll be away from my computer for a couple days. Thanks for your help, guys.

in this case I'd follow the advise Lynn gave you, just make sure the stone is lapped with properly and be careful with the pressure.
03-25-2014, 02:07 AM
dgtirl1971

I just don't like that 12k Chinese rock, scratches too much , poor feedback

I just never was able to get that hone to work well,
tried slurries,nothing worked

Quote:

Originally Posted by lz6

A Naniwa can provide an edge that is just fine. And yes it has to be lapped or you could very likely end up with your blade as you
described. I have not used Guangxi stones so I know nothing about them except they would need to be lapped as well.
You don't mention if you follow your 12k with a strop.
Take a look in the library section for a wealth of information on basics and advanced. On lapping:
Hone Lapping 101 - Straight Razor Place Wiki

Let us know how things work out.
03-25-2014, 02:09 AM
dgtirl1971

Naniwa 12k

I just bought one and waiting for it to arrive, My friend in Vegas recommended it and his word is good
03-25-2014, 02:46 AM
MinATX

I eventually did get the Naniwa 12k to work great. It is a nice stone. The problem was that my previous methods of lapping stones weren't quite doing the job. I eventually got a DMT 220, and that makes the stones perfectly flat.
03-25-2014, 03:03 AM
roughkype

Be careful overwetting the N12k--it can swell out of flat if leave it for a full soak.
03-25-2014, 03:14 AM
onimaru55

Quote:

Originally Posted by MinATX

I also have one of the (now controversial) C12K/PHIG/Guangxi stones that performs at a level below the Norton 8000. I read somewhere before that they need considerable preparation before use, but I can't remember exactly what that involves.

Does anyone have advice on prepping and using the Naniwa 12000, or also the C12K?

All you want to know on the PHIG available via 'search window'

http://straightrazorpalace.com/advan...uestion-s.html
http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...nese-hone.html
http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...-athon-26.html
03-25-2014, 03:26 AM
MinATX

I've got my C12K prepped now as well. It actually is quite good. I'm testing it out with different blades and comparing it to the Naniwa to see how alike or different the two stones are.
03-25-2014, 11:41 PM
ScoutHikerDad

Those C12's can be very variable in efficacy. I have one, but find my Nani 12 much easier, quicker and more reliable to use.
03-26-2014, 01:00 AM
earcutter

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScoutHikerDad

Those C12's can be very variable in efficacy. I have one, but find my Nani 12 much easier, quicker and more reliable to use.

lol - well don't throw it away. I couldn't stand mine when I first got it. I eventually put an olive oil on it, and started using it on knifes... which was a bit of overkill.

About a month or two ago, I pulled it out (why I'll never know), I took my DMT to it (again), soaked it for 20 minutes and ran a blade over it. Nirvana!

I haven't the slightest idea if working knifes over it was the ticket (many say to get an Arkansas going, you should run a chisel over it a few hundred/thousand strokes first), if it was the puting on and then scraping off of olive oil, or if the last run with the DMT finally got it flat??? But it works - and I am growing really fond of it.

But then I have no problem taking a blade to a stone for an extended run. I mean its WAY slower than a Nani.

Either way, its working, and the shaves are smooth. Yay :)!!
03-26-2014, 02:26 AM
WadePatton

This is another reason folks get so confused. We start talking about a Naniwa synthetic 12,000 rated stone and then shift over to a natural stone from China that unfortunately wound up with a eroneous "12k" name. MOF if you go back far enough you'll see that some referred to them as 13k back in the beginning.

For the noobs: please realize that naturals cannot be rated XX-grit as synthetics are. Yes, any stone can be graded, but to blanket the entire bloody production of Chinese naturals as XX grit is a bit silly. It is common to apply a range of grit to many naturals, as it'd be a total crapshoot if we couldn't expect that, but to single-point nail a label on any general group of natural stones is simply incorrect and mis-leading.

I'm not picking on anybody just trying to help keep the young fragile minds (or old and senile, take your pick) from perpetuating disinformation. [/minirant]

AS to the OP, I bought a 12,000 Naniwa second-hand and it has performed flawlessly, after i flattened it more better.