I think I lost some skills

When I first started straight shaving 2-3 months ago. I bought a few razors that weren't shave ready didn't even have decent bevels. I bought a Chinese 12k (as theyre most commonly referred) and had a cheap 22-/1000 knife hone already. It took forever doing the one stone honing but I was having comfortable shaves for quite a while. Then lately within the last few weeks/month It's been a tug and pull fest over here. So I bought a King 1k and a 6k, I use moderate pressure on the 1k until an even bevel is set then finish on that stone with 10 or so strokes with light pressure. Then I go to the 6k with only the weight of the blade, then the same with the Chinese stone. Then strop as normal. Seems I have lost some skills, anyone have any advice for me. I was doing great but lately I feel like a total newbie. Any advice would be appreciated.

The bevels are even in appearance, but it doesn't sound like they are meeting to form a good edge yet. Set the bevel until the razor will pop arm hair from toe to heal, then move on to the 6k. Good luck!

Howard

PS: As pinklather mentioned; poping hair is one of those terms that means more than one thing to different people. I probably misused it. The blade should easily cut a hair at the skin with very little effort. Thanks pinklather

The jump from 1K to 6K might be a bit of a stretch, especially if you are using moderate pressure on the 1K. I guess it's just me, but I try to avoid using any but the lightest pressure and will go down in grit using less pressure before I apply any intentional pressure on a stone.

Mack,

I'm pretty much w/ Sirstrop. I've not used the King stones, so I don't know if hair popping at 1k is as visible as it would be w/ a chosera. Some have trouble popping hairs w/ the Norton 1k. If it pops them, I could suggest making sure it pops them w/ only the weight of the blade - indicating a very nicely done bevel. Then, if possible, raise a slurry on the 6k to help speed the cutting, diluting to just water, and see if you can lop a hanging hair. Do the same w/ the c12k, starting w/ slurry (light slurry), diluting to water. My c12k obtains keenness pretty reliably, but its a stranger to smoothness. If you have a spare fabric strop, maybe save off the c12k slurry and give about 10 strokes on the canvas w/ c12k slurry to tone down any harshness. This assumes you don't already have crox or other spray/paste for a strop. The CBN spray on felt does a nice job of bumping up the keenness w/out any harshness.

That you've gotten shavable edges is an acheivement. Savor it. Getting it reliably, along w/ the needed comfort/smoothness can take some time to develope. If you're me, it takes alot of time. :) Blade 273 will be honed this eve.

What's the old saying - if you don't use it you lose it :)

All kidding aside, you'll get many responses regarding the metaphysical aspects of honing, but in the end it could be something as simple as the fact that you don't have enough practice at honing. You may have hit a couple out of the park to begin with and then didn't need to hone for a while and were out of practice :shrug:

It's always easier to start at a simple level before moving on to the metaphysical....

Actually no I've been honing pretty regularly. Getting new razors and such, I've always had a nack for sharpening tools/knives. I think my methods have changed lately from trying new things and getting to know the feel of new stones. I'm thinking maybe I haven't spent enough time on the 6k. I was doing really well from the first try to several razors later. I think I'm just doing it differently, I was doing the one stone honing with the cnat with decent pressure untill the edge was clean then did the light strokes to finish it up. But now lately I have been trying the "no pressure at all" technique and it's been falling short. I guess I'll just keep trying methods that feel right to me and see how it goes. Thanks for the help guys.

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Originally Posted by xMackx

I think my methods have changed lately from trying new things and getting to know the feel of new stones. I was doing really well from the first try to several razors later. I think I'm just doing it differently.

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Then I think you answered your own question. It's great to experiment, but if you change too many variables it can be difficult to pinpoint what went wrong. Keep it simple and good luck :)

The King 1k is a good stone, a little slow, ime, and thirsty. Needs to be soaked. I find that raising a very light slurry will help. I keep mine sumberged in the sink until I'm ready to use it, then take a DMT325 and do a couple of figure 8's, just enough to raise a cutting slurry. As the other's said, make sure you can pop arm hair. You should be able to off the king. Once your there, then go to the 6k

Are you using aids to to assess sharpness stages ? Marker test , magnification etc , etc.
How long on each stone ? Is lapping needed ? My experience with Kings would say yes if you are doing a few razors at a time as 1 & 6k would be getting a workout if edges are bad. The irony with minimalist progressions is maximum work for each stone. :)
I always used a 4k between 1k & 6k. You will need to learn to max. each stone you are using but you may need to pay attention to keeping them flat too.

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Originally Posted by xMackx

When I first started straight shaving 2-3 months ago. I bought a few razors that weren't shave ready didn't even have decent bevels. I bought a Chinese 12k (as theyre most commonly referred) and had a cheap 22-/1000 knife hone already. It took forever doing the one stone honing but I was having comfortable shaves for quite a while. Then lately within the last few weeks/month It's been a tug and pull fest over here. So I bought a King 1k and a 6k, I use moderate pressure on the 1k until an even bevel is set then finish on that stone with 10 or so strokes with light pressure. Then I go to the 6k with only the weight of the blade, then the same with the Chinese stone. Then strop as normal. Seems I have lost some skills, anyone have any advice for me. I was doing great but lately I feel like a total newbie. Any advice would be appreciated.

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Could you clarify? Are the razors you aren't successful with new razors or are you refreshing the old ones you have a relationship with? Also, are you viewing the work under magnification or are you doing it by "intuition" or feel? You've really got to try magnification if you haven't.

6k to whatever the heck the PHIG, or Communist Finisher (if you're looking for a PC term!) is seems like quite a leap.

The hair test isn't acceptable to discuss unless we know the poster's arm hair quality and their experience with poppin' 'em.

I started out with light pressure, not no pressure. I can't stand "no pressure" because that means the razor's edge is going to bounce up and down on the stroke, which is worse than light pressure IMO because there are spikes of too much pressure as impact on contact with the hone. It's way too subjective.

I have a 30x loupe ordered but I have been just using bright light and looking close to assess the edge for now. And when I meant I was having trouble with my razors lately with them tugging when I shave test, I meant lately it's been with all of them. I have an old boker, a torrey and some GD's. And for testing I have been popping hairs from my belly because my arm hair is too thin to matter. I think I have been having trouble because lately I have been trying new methods lately.

I just went back to my beginning method of using more pressure until finishing and my Wolff Lane Boker is passing the hanging hair test to where it cuts thru a thin hair far from my thumb. I guess I should do what I feel is right in the long run.

Torque is a better concept than pressure.
Pressure could be misconstrued as equal pressure on spine & edge which is wrong.
'Pressure' needs to be applied at the edge without flexing the edge away from the stone i.e. torque.
It is a subtle thing but explains a lot of situations where honing has little effect.

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

Torque is a better concept than pressure.
Pressure could be misconstrued as equal pressure on spine & edge which is wrong.
'Pressure' needs to be applied at the edge without flexing the edge away from the stone i.e. torque.
It is a subtle thing but explains a lot of situations where honing has little effect.

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Ahh, so you mean torquing is where you keep it flat on the stone yet have a very light twisting so that the edge is being worn more than the spine? I have been doing that lately just out of common sense. I'm surprised I haven't read about that is any tutorials.

Yes exactly.
It probably gets mentioned infrequently as the consequences of doing it wrong are a wiped out edge.