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Hi all
If you can give me some advice. The problem is with my Dovo stainless straight razor. I can get a keen edge on it I'm using a yellow coticule stone with slurry then without. It's no where near as sharp as my Carbon blade razor using the same procedure. Do I require another honing stone say a 12000 grit. This was factory sharp given to me for Christmas. Thanks all and happy new year. :banghead:
One of the characteristics of stainless steel is abrasion resistance. So you have to , depending on the alloy, do more strokes than you would with a high carbon steel. I've had a couple that I needed diamond paste or spray to finally get where I wanted to go but they vary. Some of them were doable just on the hones. I wasn't doing those with a coticule though. Not saying you can't , just that it will probably take more work. The more work being in the 4k and 8k range before you get to the finishing, although that may take a little more than a high carbon as well.
To be onest , i was always under the impression,s's did'nt compare with c/steel. also they were always more difficult to hone. I've not found that to be true, infact i have found stainless steel to shave exallant and just as nice as carbon steel. Which stainless dovo is it? Cronium oxide or ti paste have worked very well on my s'steel. I also used unicot method on a Dovo micarta, the edge was super smooth. My mate got 40 odd shaves from that razor. You could whip a layer of tape on the spine and do 30 to 60 laps on plain water
gary
The razor is a new dovo olive wood, I've just honed it again 50 laps using slurry on the yellow coticule, followed by 80 laps on just water all with the spine taped with one layer. I then stropped 30 linen then 100 on cow hide strop. Planning to shave in the next day or so and see how it goes. As a comparison I used a shavette using a feather blade, it's not a fair comparison but the difference in sharpness was truly worlds apart. Thank you for your advice regards Ian :nj
Well, you just did 130 laps and however more you did before. That's a lot for a new razor. Most new razors require a touchup only unless the bevel is seriously involved. You might want to check that because if that's the issue you will never get it the way you want it until that is addressed. If the bevel is OK you need to change your strategy and figure out a different routine, one that works or consider sending it out.
Play with the dilutions a bit if you still cant get it after trying what the others have said. You may want to try finishing on a light slurry instead of just water, sometimes that works for me. If you keep at it I am sure you will get it.
I have found more luck honing stainless on synthetics more of a sure thing. Not saying that SS will not respond to coticules or other naturals cause they will if you have the right stone, but always get them where I want on synthetics. Nortons and Shapton glass stones are my favorite for alloyed steels.
Hello Ian,Quote:
Originally Posted by Westminster
I have been watching this thread for a conclusion, but it has just stopped.
Hope you are OK.
How did you get on with the problem of achieving an edge on your SS blade?
Hi sorry lost the thread well I did give it a go and to be honest I couldn't get a good edge compared with the edge on the feather blade in my artist club razor and I decided to sell it. I still have an old mild steel razor and had it professionally prepared by the invisible edge but again the sharpness compared to the artist club is worlds apart. I not going to give up though and keep trying to get that acceptable shave, perhaps it's a technique issue.:banghead:Quote:
Originally Posted by SonnySouthWest
+1 to what has been already said, but remember your straight razor is not going to be as sharp as a Feather blade no matter how much you hone it. They have specialized machines used to sharpen scapel blades (feather also makes surgical blades in Japan) with; so it's not a fair comparison to be honest. As long as it is sharp enough to provide a smooth comfortable shave it's a win win deal IMHO.
Hello Ian,Quote:
Originally Posted by Westminster
Well, if it’s any consolation I am finding getting the hang of the straight razor experience a much slower process than I have with learning anything else.
It has surprised me.
I started with two Sheffield razors. A 5/8” Wostenholm and a 6/8” Bengall.
I let my barber send them off to the people who sharpen his scissors, because he said they could do a good job with straights.
Nope.
Then I sent them off to someone who is considered one of the best in the UK and they all came back, yet still shaved as though I was pulling my bristles out with pliers.
Sent them back again and finally they came back shave ready.
I spoke to the guy when he got the razors for the second time and he said:
“What have you been doing with them? They are all dull!”
I hadn’t done anything other than 60 light passes on a hide strop and an attempt at a WTG.
Ouch!
All the HHTs had just bent the hair, so I thought I must have just been doing it wrong. Besides, everyone was saying that HHTs were not the right way to assess a blades ability.
After the re-honing; then 60 passes on the same strop, in the same way & they stuck to my calloused thumbs, popped HHTs and melted their way through my bristles.
I reckon anyone can have an off-day.
The trouble is, as a novice I was all the while giving myself a hard time and assuming that ‘those-in-the-know’ were infallible.
I’m now glad I stuck to my guns and finally got sharp blades, without having to bark at anyone.
Even though I’d worry that first lot like a rabid dog now, I don’t believe they are able to sharpen a straight properly anyhow.
‘twas my barber who should have known better. He was trained with straight razors too, back in the early 60s.
You never stop learning, ay.
Technique is bound to be a factor, until the apprenticeship is done.
At least I have the tools to complete mine with now.
Good luck; but stay clear of mild steel blades…..!!
Sorry this comment is so long!
Coticules vary a lot. Normally SS blades require a bit more work than carbon IME. If you know your Coticule and how if performs, you should be ok. You may want to spend more time with the slurry, possibly refreshing it once or twice. Like I said, It depends a lot on your stone. Hone it up, and check as you go. If you have a jeweler's loupe, that'll work, and use the tests, TPT, TNT, etc....
Something I saw in sonnysouthwest's post above I forgot about til' I saw his. After you have the bevel set and you are ready to start refining it you can use the tests mentioned above to assess if you are truly ready to move to your higher grits, or on your coticule start refining the initial bevel; never ever ever ever touch the edge again. The only other test you should do after that is the shave test. Touching the edge and continually doing those tests (especially the TNT) will dull the edge little by little everytime you do it; so for all you know you had a great edge, then ran it across your thumbnail, and ruined it, then you shaved, and it sucked; because you basically just ran the edge over the consistency of a cow horn (hardened keratin). Just wanted to throw that in incase neither of you were ever told that before.
Thank you for your comments
Only here to help, hope you get the razor taken care of, let us know if you need any more assistance.
There's really nothing wrong with touching the edge...as in doing the TPT (thumb pad test), I use it throughout my honing progression to ensure I'm still making progress and not just mucking up the edge. The TNT however is only used to ensure that a smooth bevel is set..after the test you will have to do a little more on the bevel as you will have dulled it. I for one don't use the TNT but rather just check to see if the blade pops arm hairs above the skin.Quote:
Originally Posted by tiddle
Whoops, brain fart...I meant it mainly for the TNT, the arm hair test is a good one...can't believe I forgot to mention that one. Apologies all around.
I appreciate what tiddle is saying. It seems a fair comment. Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by tiddle
and I really should find a local supplier for those carbon-biscuits, if I'm going to keep sticking my head over the trench on this site!
Although what I actually did was just strop & attempt an HHT and thumb-pad test, in my ignorance…followed by hot water, lather & then pain – the first time round.
I went through pretty much the same sequence after the re-hone, but that time got a result.
That is also the reason I have dug out some of my other straights, which I picked up in Sheffield (in the days when they were still 0.50p or so a go), so I can begin assembling something of a rotation.
I like to try and treat an edge with great care and also prefer to let it rest for at least a couple of days, before stropping and shaving with it again. A week would be a decent rest.
Doing an arm hair shave, at half-mast seems to indicate for me how my blades are set to go, perhaps with a minimum of effect on the blade, as Catrentshaving recommends.
By a TNT to check for a smooth bevel when honing, do you mean running the bevel flat across your nail, so with the blade at around 17*, to feel for any bevel imperfections, as feedback?
Rather like wiping around a bearing housing with your fingertip, to feel for any ‘foreign bodies’?
I should really search this site for the how-to, with these subjects.
I may have a shot at some Shapton Glass hones shortly, from someone who is giving up either before or after Chrimble, so having muddied this thread a bit (sorry Ian!) I’ll be appealing for advice if I get lucky with those, on a fresh thread of my own.
wet your thumb with water, holding the razor across your thumb nail west-east gently and SLOWLY slide the blade across your nail using no pressure at all, it should grab along the entire length but not try to cut in to the nail, if it just glides smoothly across your bevel is not set and the blade still dull. I like it b/c you can get a physical sensation of where you need more work on the blade b/c you can FEEL where the edge is getting sharp or not. No worries here, we all gotta learn somewhere somehow, I'm just glad there are folks out there to tell me when or if I do something wrong, or a trick, or just general advice to correct a problem. :beer1: Oh by the way if the 17* was 17:00 (sorry yank here), then no, the edge at 18:00 and the spine at 24:00
tiddle,
Thank'ee kindly sir.
But of course my good man. Oh I wanted to be more clear about this, b/c when I was trying to learn the TNT "grabbing" was kind of vague in the descriptions. The blade will grab and not "sink in", it will grab and not want to move and you will feel it generating some friction across your nail when it does begin to move...but, FOR THE LOVE OF HOLY TAP DANCING JESUS, do not try to pull the blade to get it moving again (what i mean is some parts maybe sharper than others, so let us say closer to the heel may grab a bit then slide a little then the center of the blade may grab, and not want to move at all;the center is sharper than the heel that is where you don't want to force it to move), I just lift the blade up, re-wet the nail, get as close to that spot again as I can, then continue the test. Keeping that nail wet at all times is a MUST. Play with it, and with practice you will be able to tell what's going on with your bevel the second you pull that blade over the nail. Cheers!
Haha, nice turn of phrase!Quote:
Originally Posted by tiddle
Thanks again, you read my thoughts.
By the way, I only glanced at your location before and thought it was Oxford, England. Looks like Alabama might be nearer the mark? With a Birmingham to the west and another Oxford in Mississippi, seems like quite a few from the old country pitched in the area.
As a slight tangent, but linked to your last warning:
Since my (17yo) daughter has started cutting my hair, as an opportunity to pocket a few quid whilst having a chat, I have introduced her to the world of straight razors and she uses mine to tidy the border of my hair at the back.
She’s taken to it really well, after just a token face-pulling to start with and has done a great job, thus far.
She’s a big fan of Johnny Depp & Helena Bonham-Carter, you see…Uh-Oh…!
I’m pleased (alright, delighted to still be alive) that she has taken on board my explanation that she should not under any circumstances try and bully the blade, if she meets any kind of resistance on my skin.
Not that I have any spines, fins or suchlike on the back of my neck, as far as I know; but I thought it was worth mentioning to her, as it’s not a part of my body I’m so familiar with.
She has a well controlled, light touch and seems to be quite proud having taken to it.
I’m quite proud for her too, that she is learning something which very few of todays teenagers will ever have in their frame of reference.
I should mention that it has heightened my sensitivity to her moods, especially when I’m about to request a trim.
Won’t be long before she figures out why I’m so compliant & complimentary on haircut days!