Are the real deal coticules the ones from Ardennes? I was looking on eBay and it seems like some of the 2"x7" stones can be had relatively inexpensively. Are those the ones to buy, or do you guys recommend another kind?
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Are the real deal coticules the ones from Ardennes? I was looking on eBay and it seems like some of the 2"x7" stones can be had relatively inexpensively. Are those the ones to buy, or do you guys recommend another kind?
They all got dug out of the ground in Belgium so whether it was 50 years ago or yesterday the stone itself was formed thousands ..... millions (?) of years ago. Say that to say, they aren't all exactly alike, being a natural stone, but if you luck into a good one it doesn't matter whether it is vintage or if it is current production. There are some folks who feel that the best rocks were dug up in the past. I don't know about that one way or the other.
Then there are the different grades, select, standard and the different veins, etc. etc.. This link has some good info that may help you with coticule knowledge. Belgian Coticule Hones
Good Luck!
Howard
The only place in the world these rocks come from is the ardennes quarry in Belgium. I recommend one 8" long. It makes the strokes easier, more ground to cover withou the razor falling off. I personally prefer 8x3" stones, but the 2" wide ones are fine. Coticules garnet content range from 30-40% garnet content. The more garnets, the faster cutting and (I think) finer the finished edge. I like to think that mine has alot of garnets, it makes me feel better about spending that much money on a rock...
It's a natural product and as they quarry it out the quality can change from foot to foot. You need to Know about the deposit itself to be able to figure out if the quality has changed over the years and compare samples of the old with the new and the future.
Would you mind dusting off the old electron microscope and counting garnet crystals in our coticules for us? We could then rate them: 1,234,239 crystals per square inch (or something like that)Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigspendur
I like to be able to hold my finishers. It's a personal preference of mine. I would tend towards a Coti that's about 6 or 7 inches long, by about 1 1/2 to 2 inches wide. Good for inside the hand.
Now, if i was going to do batch honing and I wanted to do it on a Coti....then I would want to cover as much ground as possible, like woodsmandave says. I'd go for an 8 by 3 then.
A good thing about narrower stones is that it's easier to work around a slight warp, as the whole blade is not in contact at once.
full size hone works just as well for those problems, used properly of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by tlittle
What mainaman /stefan just said +1Quote:
Originally Posted by tlittle
Somehow that myth just keeps going and going and going :) If you really don't believe us, just draw a line down the center of a 3 in wide hone end to end and only hone on half of it :p A rolling X or a 45 degree heel forward X works on any size hone...
I got into an argument about the narrow stone thing on another forum. Finally I just gave up. Just can't convince some people.
I would recommand the smallest size Coticule you can still comfortably hone on. If you can hone on small stones you will save a lot of money. Also make sure to tell your seller what kind of Coticule you want e.g. coarse/fine, shape and maybe even which vein. Coarse Coticules are great in a progression but I would only use a fine one to shave of.
Buying one from ebay can be cheaper but you don't always get what you want.
I think it's good that we can have different opinions about "ease of use" with regard to a narrow or wider hone. I believe it is something that falls squarely in the realm of opinion. Since it can be done using either hone, which seems to be something we all agree on, it becomes a personal opinion on which hone makes it easier. I say narrow, others with lots of experience say it doesn't matter. I would point out that lots of experience generally makes everything a little easier. I sincerely hope this doesn't come off as an affront. I just think it's fair to bystanders to mention it really comes down to opinion more than fact.
I agree. I have and use narrow hones. I like them alot. But on the flip side of what you are saying new people who already have there Nortons, Naniwa's, Shapton's etc which are wide don't have to feel that they need to go out and but narrow hones for problem blades. The wide hones will handle them just fine.
You aren't kidding.Quote:
Originally Posted by Piet
Amen to that!
I would not buy Coticule on ebay. they are usually inferior. buy directly from the Belgians to the website.
Coticules on ebay are simply not inferior. Why would they be?Quote:
Originally Posted by strawinski
I do not trust the dealers on ebay. As with the Thuringians. Also, the Thuringian but are very bad. I only buy the stones for experts. no one buys diamonds on ebay.
I'll have to change my wording I suppose...It's easier for me to hone a warped blade on a narrower hone. I had one razor with a heel that just wouldn't touch the hone unless I got an angle on the rolling x-stroke that made me worry about the pressure on the edge in relation to the edge of the hone. I'm sure once I gain more experience then I'd be able to work around it on a larger hone as well. Consider my endorsement merely a subjective opinion :D
However, I will agree with some others and say that for natural stones especially, narrower is definitely cheaper :)
TRUTH!Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
I have several coticules, the one I use most is 2.5"X9" a natural combo, vintage, BBW side is never used.
Funny, I've honed warped razors, smiling razors, etc on normal size "bench" hones and never had a problem....hmm.
Some people think that every coticule known to man-kind is the same as each other when it comes to quality also, which is...not true...:angel:Quote:
Originally Posted by Danricgro
part of the formula for honing success is confidence and familiarity with what one is doing. For some people, the narrow hone factors favorably in those regardsQuote:
Originally Posted by Danricgro
I think where the problem comes in and why I correct it every single time is that "Narrow Minded" honers tend to word it so that it makes Narrow Hones sound "easier" to use on problem blades.. Where "Wide Minded" people tend to say "It does't matter what size the hone is" it really only comes down to the hands pushing the razor on the hone.
To make it as clear as possible, IME the size of the hone makes no difference only the size of the honer's experience :)
Now here is a thought
Since a smaller hone requires more laps to do the same work as a larger hone, then you are going to have to do more flips, since flips are the biggest source of potential problems for a new honer.. Then which size stone is actually eaiser??????
:shrug: See there are discussions within discussions riddles within the questions, a true enigma :) :p
Tlittle, I have noticed that a 2" hone is slightly easier to hone a slightly warped blade on (depending on the type of warp) for the reasons you described, but I've only seen the issue on a full hollow blade. However, the problem is easily remedied by being conscious of the issue, and careful. But I will go against all these veterans and say, yes, I know what you're talking about-I don't necessarily think theres very much difference at all, but for some warps, there is a slight difference--to ME :)Quote:
Originally Posted by tlittle
One of the biggest problems guys have is that they don't keep the razor flat on a stone. Smaller stones and particularly thinner stones can add to the difficulty for new guys until they get both the pressure and the flatness of the strokes worked out.
I have Coticules of all sizes and all of them CAN do the job. Smaller stones or bouts are definitely cheaper and as pointed out, generally just take more strokes and everyone has to figure that part out individually. I can consistently get quicker results from any of my larger stones with less dialing in and for one stone honing, the larger stone is much easier for me.
As with most of these type discussions, both cheap and individual preferences come into play. To me, the key is just finding the stones that work the best and the most consistent for you. And, there are a lot of stones out there that work.
Have fun.
You are very Zen in your posts lately, Lynn. Definitely seem "at one with the universe" having attained enlightenment through honing :)
I am a honing noob, but let me stir the pot a little.
People make a big deal out of lapping their hones. I see people talking about lapping after every blade.
I saw someone recently that has a LOT of experience hone a razor for me on hones that were very swaybacked. So my point is that experience can compensate for a lot of shortcomings in the hones.
I learned a lot watching him work.
Not a hard thing when you sit and hone 4-6 hours almost every day of your life.Quote:
Originally Posted by woodsmandave
It's a bootiful ting!!
Have fun.
lol best...thingQuote:
Originally Posted by Lynn
Everrr