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Attachment 88531
Yesterday my new Nakayama arrived from Maxim, and has already produced a better edge on my straights than my Shaptons ever did.
The only problem I can see in the future is the wooden base cracking due to the water I tend to splash around during the honing.
Are there some way to waterproof the wooden base? or do I have to change my habit of rinsing off the slurry under running water in the sink.
Nice looking piece of rock you got there mate:)
I would lacquer it.
Personally, I would use shellac on it, just for the tradition of it.
But I guess any good lacquer would do you just fine, check at your local paint supply shop.
If you wanna go with the shellac, give me a buzz, I have about a litre of the stuff, and a little goes a long way:)
Personally i use shellac on all wood coffins, its easy to use, dries very quickly, makes the wood look purty, and easily renewable.
I have two Nakayama's from Old School mounted on wooded bases, similar to yours, I've done nothing over the years and they've held up fine. Maybe I will give them a good shellacing.
I am positive Max is using a nice water resistant wood that will not go wrong with soaking.
In Japan very popular wood that is used for kitchen knives handles and natural stone bases is Ho wood, which is very similar to cedar in qualities. I can be wrong but I think your base is cedar, I have a few bases on my Jnats made from cedar and so far no problems after almost a year of heavy use.
+1, I believe mine is cedar as well. They both came from Japan, and look very much like the OP's.
i use polyurethane to water proof my base's .
My nakayama mariuchi has a wooden base made from cedar. It has been wet and left to air dry many times. It's fine.
I have no idea if Max does, but I know Alex sells some stones that he acquired with already made wooden stands. These stands were likely made by the previous owner, and does not indicate that the stands are made of wood impervious to water. Cedar, for instance, is not a very dense wood and absorbs water easily. Over time, water will deteriorate the wood. It would be best to shellac the stand, and if you never intend on removing the rock from the base, where the stone meets the wood as well, to give eliminate the propensity for moisture getting locked under the stone and on the wood. I suggest making sure both are thoroughly dry before doing this.
I am not so sure that cedar is not good to use with water.Quote:
Originally Posted by woodsmandave
I made my bases specifically because of its water resistance
Thuja plicata - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The base is quartersawn (or close to it). I wouldn't worry about cracking or warping with it. I don't know that I'd lacquer it, either, unless you know you've absolutely gotten it sealed all the way around in every single crevice. Otherwise, the lacquer may end up holding water in on some parts of it instead of keeping it out.
I am basing my opinions on my experience with the wood building decks, replacing old decks, and building play sets for kids in the past. Not sure if it is red cedar, as you cited. Even if it is waterproofed, it tends to rot after a few years, especially if moisture is trapped in it. A perfect place for moisture to get trapped is between the hone and the wood. I've heard that for Jnats, prolonged moisture is not a good thing.
My cedar bases are going strong for over a year now, in Japan they use Ho wood which is similar to cedar in grain structure and seems to work well. Apart from the wood aspect, water does nothing to a J-nat, one can soak them and they will be just fine. I have soaked mine for days and have not had any issues, the trick is not to expose to extreme heat or cold while drying.Quote:
Originally Posted by woodsmandave
I haven't used cedar, but I've used kingwood, cocobolo and walnut.
Combination of natural and artificial stones - going on 5 years now and no issues.
this is great idea too, but isn't it pricey?Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveW
Yes, it is. Sorry, didn't want to suggest that people should run out and buy kingwood and cocobolo. I had it around in "shorts" that weren't fit for anything else, excpet maybe to turn into pens (and I didn't want to do that).
I live down the road from a Rockler, and they sometimes have exotics in a clearance bin (well, they used to. I haven't seen much recently). Maybe for all of the stones, I used about $30 worth of wood. Compared to the value of the stones, a small amount, and the mass of the wood is nice to help keep the stones on the bench and not flying across the shop.
I didn't "do" any really expensive stones or any natural stones over an inch thick - those don't generally need a base. But the little ones and the shapton pros are great candidates for the cocobolo and the kingwood. The kingwood almost feels like it's waxed, even though it has no finish on it.
Of course, now that it's eons later...i might rather have saved some of that kingwood for scales, but that was several years ago that I blew through it.
I'm talking more like 5 or more years of repeated, frequent exposure to water, as a regular honer might. I don't know of any wood that would rot out in a year, unless it has trapped moisture.Quote:
Originally Posted by mainaman
I'm interested in what you know about Jnats and water. When I bought my Jnat from Alex, he had typed up some "Care for your JNat" instructions. One was that only distilled water should be used on it. Another was that there are natural salts in the stone, and prolonged exposure to water will erode the stone.
I'd say kingwood and cocobolo are much more naturally water repellant than cedar, IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveW
You can soak the stones in water and nothing happens ( I soaked mine for 4 days), in Japan the guys that do sword polishing keep their stones in buckets with water.Quote:
Originally Posted by woodsmandave
The strata had formed on the bottom of the sea for millions of years, then after many millions of years migration ended up where they are now above the surface, so you can say they have been exposed to water naturally. Soaking the stones doe snot really benefit anything except for the really really hard ones, just soaking in water for some period of time does not damage them.
As far as distilled water etc, there is no evidence pro or against it, use what you like. My water here is with very low calcium content and works great, I do not know if in Japan they use DI water or not, I have seen on many videos they just splash from a bucket.
Not very traditional but how about Thompson's Water Seal? It is specifically formulated to waterproof wood.
Sea water does not have the solvent power of pure water. If you have a stone that has a slight fracture in it pure water can hasten a weaken the crack. I suppose if the stone is healthy it may not be an issue. I seal all my jnat bottoms and sides to prevent water from soaking into stone but that is just me. seems like there are very knowlegeable people who see this issue from both sides. Part of my routine with my finishing stones is to rinse then dry off before putting them away. Maybe they are like cars, some like to dry off and baby them others let the water dry off on it's own.Quote:
Originally Posted by mainaman
I am a fan of sealing the stones too, just in case, I also leave them dry on their ownQuote:
Originally Posted by Kingfish
What about warping of the wood when it gets wet? I would
think it could warp the stone ever so slightly.
I don't think stones warp, even ever so slightly ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by SharpMan
If the wood is right kind, or properly water proofed it will not warp. The wood has to be also cut the right way.Quote:
Originally Posted by SharpMan
Attachment 88866
Thanks for the good advice. Itīs great to be able to ask just about any question, and get a bunch of good answers from people that know more than I.
Considering some of the answers I got, I decided to waterproof the base. Probably nothing would have happened if I chose not to, but I wanted to be on the safe side.
I sealed the gap between the stone and the base with some epoxy, the following day I diluted some shellac for the 5 first layers, and put on 5 more layers to finish it.
I donīt know if itīs better looking, but atleast it is waterproof :D
That project turned out great, did you use water resistant epoxy?
Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by mainaman
Yes, water resistant epoxy from west systems and lots of shellac :)
I guess the stone is permanently glued to the base now, but thatīs no problem.
Look much better now :D
They do. Probably incredibly little and insignificant in waterstones.Quote:
Originally Posted by woodsmandave
Wow nice job, I am sure it will be functional as well as eye candy.
My two cents is that if the wood is Cedar than the natural oils in the wood should preserve it. Natural Cedar decking will last up to 20yrs and that's untreated and exposed to both water and sunlight. The sunlight deteriorate wood just as water and the temp extremes would.
I 'd think if one uses Cedar just rinse and dry it normally.
