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My question would be like "store brand" vs name brand items in lets say your local grocery market..hope this makes sense ;-)
So..I was curious to know if Naniwa's/Shapton/Norton/King..etc..."name brand" stones
were any different than their Japanese/European counterpart brands Sun Tiger/Bester/King Shapton..."store brand" stones
Is it REALLY worth the extra money in the end trying to get the same result..or is this a YMMV question
ST
I don't knwo these hones so this isn't a i've used both and know thing BUT that being say as with most things i feel you get what you pay for! the "Name Brand" stones as you call them have tried and true results! MANY members here use them and the results are un disputable if the skill is there. Hope this helpsQuote:
Originally Posted by smalltank
I got the Norton 4/8k and recommended Chinese 12k because it was/is a learning process and wanted to reduce the variables. If you're a beginner like I was I would recommend the same. Istarted this "retro shaving" journey with a cheap double edge razor that was defective and kept trying to use it, figuring I was to blame for the bad results. If I had bought one with a good reputation the odds would have been in my favor.
I will say, however, I have a couple of razors I can't do anything with and have nothing to lose trying to bring them around. For those I have a cheap 1k stone because it isn't worth the gamble to get an expensive brand name.
I'm curious how something more expensive than I've got works, but why spend more than is necessary if what you have gets the job done, unless you are in the business honing for other people?
I would definitely recommend getting a relaible, consistent 1k stone, a good 1k is pretty much a priority. Whether its a popular brand or not...? research the reviews and take a swing.
I have a naniwa 1k which I got when I started; it has nice feedback and is a little bit slower than other 1k's so you won't end up with a stump if you use too much pressure ;) I also have a 5k and 8k no brand hones which are decent hones... little on the rough side but, if you have a finisher your sorted. I also used my friends Norton 1k,4k and 8k which also do the job.
I assume naturals aren't included in this? I hone on a coticule which if it was a synthetic, consistent wouldn't be a word to describe them :) but that goes for all naturals. Doesn't mean they're bad just means each hone is a stone on its own.
I realised recently that technique and knowledge outweigh what your razor is being sharpened with. As long as it can set a good bevel, refine the edge and then finish the edge to a shave ready standard (whatever you deem that to be), you have literally thousands of possible combinations of progressions to try and experiment with.
I haven't seen any counterfeit hones being sold by anyone yet, so I think you should be alright there, it just comes down to preferences, how fast do you want to hone? how sharp or smooth do you want your edges? and how easy is it to get there? Oh, and how much is it going to cost me?
regards Alex
Bester and king stones are both brand name stones. King stones are perhaps older and a little less expensive, but until a few years ago, they were more well known than anything else over here (in the US).
Brand name or no brand name, the only way to tell whether a stone is what you want is to use it. Anything that has a reasonable quantity of closely graded aluminum oxide in it is going to work fine, but you may or may not like how tough the binder is or what it feels like to move a razor across the binder.
King and Sun Tiger are trademarks of Matsunaga King stone company 松永トイシ株式会社 Most of their stones aside from the the diamond stones, new ceramic stones and the sintered green and black carbide stones (usually branded Sun Tiger) are made of abrasives mixed with clay and backed (most are yellow to red orange and may feel and smell like an ordinary clay flower pot (which are pretty much the same thing without the abrasive). These clay-bonded stones generally have good water retention, soak well (and can be stored in water without harm) and have good feedback or "road feel" though they may dish faster and not cut as fast as some special high-tech stones, they often have better feel, water retention and are cheaper. Hope this helps.
Mike
It's the same like the grocery store brands like you said. Some of the products are as good as the branded ones and some are quite inferior. The problem is you don't know unless you try them for yourself or someone else has served as the guinea pig. In times past a few outfits made all the hones with different names on them so they were all quality as long as you know who made them. These days it's not the same even if you knew they were made by the same outfit the mix might be inferior.
I think a big factor in hone performance, has to be the experience of the person using the stone. No doubt in my mind that there are people on this forum that could take a cheap hone and max out it's potential. I chose stones this year that have a well known performance level, I did not chose them based on price. I needed stones that could help me out, give me a learning curve, so to speak. I can learn to hone better on stones that have already set standards. Recently, past 2 months, I have been experimenting with stones, slate and carborundums that vary in price and quality. This is not the case with quality razors; for them I stick with the known performers.
Kudos to Dave and Modine for helping pick the fly poop outta the pepper.
Several have posted about the 1k-1.2k king as doing a fine job. There are others. It may boil down to how much work are you going to invest to learn which is which, before its less costly to buy a known performer. Just about each time I took the attitude that 'I know better' or I'll try something a bit different, I regretted it. If financial neccessity require you keep absolute lowest cost - its worth chasing. If not, you're likely chasing false economy.
'Wish Lynn could weigh in on which low cost stones were best in each grit range.
Best of luck Smalltank.