Need some advice

Hi guys, I need to ask you for some advice.

When I started honing I got a set of Naniwa SS, 1-3-8-12K, I've stuck to theese stones for more than a year and 100-150 razors, I've been pretty happy with these, but I have some bad friends that have introduced me to other stones......:p (And I'm getting fed up of the clogging and having to clean the Naniwas all the time when I hone several razors)

So, a month ago I got a Chosera 1K, and now I have ordered Shapton Pro 5K and 8K.

My question for you my friends is this: Will getting the 2K and 12K Pro give me any benefits?

I know from experience that the SS 12K and GS 16K is pretty similar in preformance, is the Pro 12K in the same league?

Actually for me, the Pro has been my least favorite of the hones mentioned. Personally, I have not found any benefit from them and less consistency for some reason than the Glass or SS stones.

I use Naniwa SS stones about 50 percent of the time on a daily basis and normally do a dozen razors at a time. They do need to be cleaned at the end of a session, but they lose nothing from a results stand point.

Have fun.

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Originally Posted by Zephyr

Hi guys, I need to ask you for some advice.

When I started honing I got a set of Naniwa SS, 1-3-8-12K, I've stuck to theese stones for more than a year and 100-150 razors, I've been pretty happy with these, but I have some bad friends that have introduced me to other stones......:p (And I'm getting fed up of the clogging and having to clean the Naniwas all the time when I hone several razors)

So, a month ago I got a Chosera 1K, and now I have ordered Shapton Pro 5K and 8K.

My question for you my friends is this: Will getting the 2K and 12K Pro give me any benefits?

I know from experience that the SS 12K and GS 16K is pretty similar in preformance, is the Pro 12K in the same league?

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I prefer my Pros over my GS stones from a speed & hardness POV.. That said I don't advise them for beginners same as I would not advise a super hard Jnat to beginners. No comment on your skills Zephyr , just a disclaimer. ;)

I use the 'home' market stones tho, the Ha no kuromaku which are a different composition to the export stones. I 've seen a few posts from guys that don't favour the Pro's so I've often wondered if they are so different or if it's just that they suit me..

I don't own a Chosera 1k so can't comment on any benefit from the 2k pro following it.
You talk about the 12k so I assume you are referring to the J/versions. The only benefit the 12k following the 8k gives you is the obvious one you would expect... A 12k edge vs an 8k edge :)
The pro 12 k is quite a fast cutter. For a while I made do without the 8k after the 5k but I like the smaller increments..

Sounds to me like you're getting into a bit of HAD. Nothing wrong with that. Give the pros a try. I did and the superstones. I ended up settling for the chosera 1k, norton single grit 4 & 8 for the bull work and a few naturals for the finishing. Part of the fun of the hobby, for me, was having the opportunity to try these different stones out. Eventually, if you're like me, you'll sort out what suits you and stick with that. IME they are all good and will do the job. Just nuances make the difference in which we end up preferring over the other.

Thanks for the replies guys, it's much appreciated, but none of them really answer my question :)

Like I said, I've been honing for well over a year, and in this time I've honed probably about 100-150, (maybe more) razors on my Naniwas, anything from finishing a factory edge to blde restoration taking out chips etc. so I don't think I fit in the complete beginners section anymore, intermediate maybe?

I've stuck to the SS beacause I wanted to learn to hone on one set of stones and getting consistent results before moving onto other, faster stones.

Of course I'm still learning, and improving my skills and I will not throw away my Naniwas, but I've been thinking of getting another (read extra) set of hones for a while, and I've spent several months deciding which ones to get. In the end I was struggling between the GS and Pro's, the reason I went for the Pro's is that I got them for a much better price. (It is the Japanese Pro's, not the export version)


The questions I'm searching an answer for, or at least some guidance is:

1. Whether the 2K will give some benefits before the 5K, or is the 5K enough to go to straight from the 1K?

2. Will the Pro 12K (15K) give me any benefits compared to the SS 12K? (Except that it is a faster cutter)



I'm trying to keep a little resistance to HAD (I really don't need a house full of stones), and if these two won't give me any great benefits in a progression compared to what I already got, I don't see no reason the spend money on them, and rather put them into a Jnat in the future.

When I had the pros I used them in a progression of 1k, 2k, 5k, 8k and either 12k or 15k because I had them both. As you noted 12k and 15k are probably the same stone but they (shapton) branded the Japan only version 12k. Anyway, their 1k is a very aggressive stone and I liked to come off it onto the 2k which I felt smoothed the bevel out from the aggressive 1k.

I began with them doing pyramids using the 5/8 and it was painfully slow going. When a member named smokingtbird, IIRC, posted a Japanese grit chart comparing their grit ratings with the USA grit charts I began doing a pyramid with the 2k/5k and initial finishing with the 8k pro. This yielded much faster and better results for me.

The superstones have a 3k, which according to the J-grit chart, and in my experience, works a bit better at the low end of the pyramid so I used the naniwas more than the pros. Doing 3/5 and than going to the 8k. Here is the thread that t-bird posted with the grit chart.

For a while, I was hitting all the grits on my Naniwa SS, 1k, 3, 5, 8, 10 and 12. Most the time, I'd do a few laps on my Y/G Eshcer to finish, or Wool Felt with .50. Did I benefit from hitting the grits in between?, The 3 and 10, I don't know. It shaved great, but it shaved great it if I did 1, 5, 8 and 12. I just did less strokes. Now, I use the Chosera 1k, the Nortons 4/8 and a finisher. Depending on my mood, I may do the Nani 12k, and few lapps on the Escher, just to smooth things out. Read the less is more thread.

I thought there was a benefit to hitting all the grits in between, now I'm not so sure. Glen did all the Nani grits for a while too IIRC.
If you don't want a house full of hones, and are getting great edges, Then, No. A lot of it really depends on you. Where you are with your honing, and how comfortable your shaves are. The longer I'm in this, the more stuff I get rid of, and think...."What was I thinking".... I'm definitely in the less is more camp. I'm not sure if this helps you at all.

I think when the day is done, Hones is Hones. The all do one thing, remove steel, and give us a shaving edge.
Some are different than others, but I think it's like Apples and Oranges, or negligible differences. You have to find what your comfortable with. If your getting good, smooth edges off your Naniwa's, why even buy the Shaptons? You could have bought a really nice razor? Just a thought.

Everyone seems to be looking for "Edgevana" I'm not sure if it's out there, or what stone it comes from. Those of
you buying all these stones and testing them, Thanks....

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Originally Posted by zib

If your getting good, smooth edges off your Naniwa's, why even buy the Shaptons?

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There's two reasons for that: 1) I want some stones that don't clog as much as the Naniwas and work faster. 2) In the beginning I soaked my SS 3/8 combo way too much with the result that the bonding broke and the stones split and have bendt. I've glued them onto a base and lapped them again, the 3K is working fine, but the 8K will never be the same again, it works, but not optimal :(

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You could have bought a really nice razor?

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I did that too :p

I heard about happening to some folks, Naniwa problems. I guess I've been lucky. Plus, I have the SS glued to the base, I've had no problems at all. I lapp before and after each use, just a few figure 8's, like Glen does in his Videos, and it works for me. I know they can be problamatic, and I understand where your coming from....Did you consider the Chosera's. I've only used the 1k, like pretty much everone else. I haven't heard much on the other ones...I'm sure the Shapton's are faster. I didn't the edge off my Shapton GS 16. It was a bit harsh for me. That's what I was saying earlier, you have to find what's best for you...What fits....

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Originally Posted by zib

I heard about happening to some folks, Naniwa problems. I guess I've been lucky. Plus, I have the SS glued to the base, I've had no problems at all. I lapp before and after each use, just a few figure 8's, like Glen does in his Videos, and it works for me. I know they can be problamatic, and I understand where your coming from....Did you consider the Chosera's. I've only used the 1k, like pretty much everone else. I haven't heard much on the other ones...I'm sure the Shapton's are faster. I didn't the edge off my Shapton GS 16. It was a bit harsh for me. That's what I was saying earlier, you have to find what's best for you...What fits....

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I got the Chosera 1k about a month ago, I vore down over 50% of the SS 1K in little over a year. (Lots of honing out chips etc. on eBay specials)

I've tried Birnando's Chosera 5K and 10K a couple times, and have had them for consideration, but in the end it was a matter of price (I got the Pro 5K and 8K for $178 shipped to Norway)

I hope they work out for you. The best hones are the last ones you need to buy.

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Originally Posted by Zephyr

...Snip
The questions I'm searching an answer for, or at least some guidance is:

1. Whether the 2K will give some benefits before the 5K, or is the 5K enough to go to straight from the 1K?

2. Will the Pro 12K (15K) give me any benefits compared to the SS 12K? (Except that it is a faster cutter)

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You know, I have been going from a 1K to a 5K (Chosera)for a good while now, and I find that for the most part, that worked out just fine.
I have been playing around with a 2K SS in between the 1 and 5K Chosera, but haven't found much benefit in doing so.
As to speed, I find the Chosera's and the Shapton GS to be quite similar in speed,so I would guess that would be similar in that sense.
The scratch marks might be slightly finer on the GS so perhaps even less of an issue there?
Surely, it would mean a bit more work on the 5K, but acceptably so IMO.

I've only played around with the 16K GS, but that did not add much at all to a 12K SS IME.

The only synth stones that I've tried that adds anything to a good 12K SS edge are the following three:

Gokumyo 15 and 20K, and the GS 30K.
Of those, I find the Gokumyo's to be greatly superior to the GS.
No harsh edges or "over the top" feeling from any of those two regardless of steel, and the finish of the 20K stands up to a comparison from the 30K GS and then some:)

If you wanna play around with them, just give me a call, I could always do without any of them for a few weeks.

Thanks B. I think I might accept your offer when I've gotten to know the Pro's a little, maybe at the next meetup.

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Originally Posted by Zephyr

The questions I'm searching an answer for, or at least some guidance is:

1. Whether the 2K will give some benefits before the 5K, or is the 5K enough to go to straight from the 1K?

2. Will the Pro 12K (15K) give me any benefits compared to the SS 12K? (Except that it is a faster cutter)

I'm trying to keep a little resistance to HAD (I really don't need a house full of stones), and if these two won't give me any great benefits in a progression compared to what I already got, I don't see no reason the spend money on them, and rather put them into a Jnat in the future.

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Q1., I think you may end up answering your own questions better than any one else can. :)
Try the 1k-5k jump for a while & see how it works for you. You may need nothing else. Adding any number of stones to a progression usually puts less stress & wear on any individual stone & also means less lapping. It also allows you a variety of starting points depending on how damaged the razors are e.g. Some I may start on my 320 grit Pro, others I can choose the 1k,1.5k or 2k as a starting point. These things may not be an issue for you but time will tell.. Sorry I'm just generalising here again but I don't own the Chosera 1k to be more specific.

RE Q.2, I don't see any benefit in the Shap 12k over the Naniwa12k once you reach 8k stage.

I appreciate your minimalist concept but for me I've only been able to pull it off with razors & not stones :)

Here is what I tell people when asked about the 1-3-5-8 question

If you are a new honer buy the 3k as it helps insure the bevel set which is a problem for new honers
If you are an old hand buy the 5k as it helps polish better

If you are named jimmyHAD buy both and gloat :rofl2:

I still use the whole set of Naniwas 1-3-5-8-10-12 when I use them, these are my goto stones if I have a Chippy razor in the line up, many razors it just doesn't matter, but I have found hard steel chippy razors are easily tamed by the Naniwa SS hones, and the small steps seems to help even more..

g

Thanks to all, I think I will stick to the Pro 5 & 8 for now and do some experimenting with the SS 3K before the Pro 5k to see if a lower grit stone is necessary or usefull.

If now just that 8K could arrive soon, it's been three weeks since I placed my order and I have still not recieved the package nor the tracking information, and the vendor have not replied to any of the four e-mails I've sent asking for shipping confirmation and tracking number :mad:

I'm not going to mention names, but needless to say it was the last order they got from me....

- Hmmm, it actually felt a little bit better to rant a little (My wife doesn't care so it's useless to let it out to her :))

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

I still use the whole set of Naniwas 1-3-5-8-10-12 when I use them, these are my goto stones if I have a Chippy razor in the line up, many razors it just doesn't matter, but I have found hard steel chippy razors are easily tamed by the Naniwa SS hones, and the small steps seems to help even more..

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This is a great point. Coarse grained stainless comes to mind also.
As much as I love my Pro's & use them exclusively of late, there are some razors that need more refinement at the end game. i.e. post 8k or 12k stage. I compensate with various naturals at that point as the sometimes softer or "rounder" particles are more forgiving but a 'softer' synthetic progression is a sensible alternative. Horses for courses.