When to add a 12k stone to my honing

I just bought a Norton kit that contains both the 200/1000, the popular 4000/8000 combination stones, the Norton Flattening Stone and Prep Stone. I decided to get this particular kit since I have plenty of other things besides razors that need sharpening and eventually I want to learn to set bevels and maybe do some restoration but one thing at a time. My goal is to keep my razor as sharp as humanly possible for the time being until I feel I’m ready for the polishing stone. I got my razor from SRD so I know it was honed properly but I’m pretty certain I dulled/rolled the edge with bad stropping technique (which has since gotten better) since it doesn’t cut as effortlessly as it did when it was new. The general consensus is to learn on the 4/8 up to the point that I’m getting good shaves off of it then add a finishing stone.


The question is how sharp will I be able to get my razor using the 8k? I’m sure it won’t be as sharp as it was from SRD (taking into consideration my entry level skill). At what point will I be able to say “wow that was a great shave, it’s time to step it up a notch and pick up a polishing stone”? What would be the difference in shave feeling/results between a razor honed with an 8k vs. using the 8k then finishing with a 12k? Maintaining an edge usually requires a polishing stone of 12k or greater so will I be going “backwards” using the 8k?


I’m in no hurry and expect to spend a long time learning and perfecting my honing/sharpening skills.

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Originally Posted by RFP357

but I’m pretty certain I dulled/rolled the edge with bad stropping technique.......... The question is how sharp will I be able to get my razor using the 8k?

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That's a great kit for us beginners who feel it necessary to ignore others who've gone before us suggesting we take it slow and easy. I've been using it taking razors with chips in the edge to a finished, shave-ready product. I'm still learning, though, as I just proved last night spending 1.5 hours on a 4/8ths Fredrick Reynolds with a curved toe. I never did get it beyond state-fair, semi-dull, sharp.

I have put my best edge on a Henkel finishing with just the 8k and it's my best shaver (short of a dublduck Lynn honed for me.). I wouldn't rush into a 12k. But then again, I am a newbie.

If you check out this tread you might decide you never "need" to go beyond an 8000. What you might "want" to do will be an entirely different thing.

http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...on-2012-a.html

Read the JaNorton thread


Then ignore all the advice, and go buy a 12k better yet a 15k or 20k, because everybody knows that a higher number on the hone always makes the edge better :rofl2:

Better yet I think that with an 8k you can only get to HHT 2 where a 12k would give an HHT 6 and the 20k can hit HHT 8 but be careful because at 12k the edge can get "too sharp" and at 20k it is way too sharp and lifts the top layer of skin with every stroke..

OK OK Glen stop :) sorry just having some fun


Honestly you probably never NEED anything over 8k if you WANT it and have the means then buy it, but it won't help the edge at all until you get good enough that you don't NEED it :p


Edit: Lazarus said it better and faster then I did LOL

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

...Edit: Lazarus said it better and faster then I did LOL

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You said it with great humor and for that we thank you!

RFP: first - Bravo for some VERY good sense and attitude about the topic. You are definitely smarter on the topic than I was.
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Getting a good shave from the 8k means you've developed the skills to use a stone well enough to gain benefit from the polisher. In hindsight, I think I was out to lunch on this fact and learned it later in my honing. Only recently I thought I should have a Norton 4/8, and the shave from it was quite good. I actually like working w/ it more than the Nani 8 I've been using, though the Nani has yielded a higher level of keenness for me. I still prefer USING the Norton, and am still finding how to get as much out of it as possible.

The shave is smooth and comfortable, if not quite as keen as an edge from higher grit stones. I would say that when you can get that 'smooth and comfortable' shave reliably from the Norton - you can expect to get some higher performance from a higher grit stone. While everyone gets light-headed and poetic about their favorite natural stone for a finisher, my thinking is that a high-grit synthetic will serve better at first, and remain invaluable even after you have your own favorite natural. Not all blades are gonna like your gucci natural, and having a reliable synthetic finisher will come to your rescue at this point.

One thing members have done in the last couple of months is to send their 8k finished edge to an experienced honer for evaluation. There are plenty of member that would be happy to work w/ you this way. The ones sent to me, I'd tweak with my 8k and send back. Before I had only the Nani, which isn't a good comparo to the Norton, but now I have the Norton 8 as a guide. Maybe you could get outside feedback on the quality of your 8k edge to confirm its ready for the next stone. I would think most members would love to work w/ someone w/ an attitude as good as yours. I'd certainly be happy to.

+1 to what Lazarus and Glenn said. When you can get good shaves at the 8k level regularly pick up a naniwa 12k for icing on the cake.

I was part of the JA/norton and learn a lot and shaved with 8k edge for a month then after both razors went to 12k naniwa,
and to be totally honest there is a difference but certainly not like night and day! I was shocked of the edge i could get with
4k/8k and the shave was good and without iritation perhaps add some pasted strops only after the 8k!

I cannot give any better advice than what's already been given, in regard to shave readiness on an 8K Norton.
But,
I noticed that you mentioned, you have "other" things that need sharpening. You probably paid a good penny for that Norton set-up. If you plan on getting the most out of that 4/8 for your razors, then I would keep it for razors only. JMO
I can't even think of touching my 4/8 with anything other than a razor. I have other stones to keep my knives sharp.

I feel there is some merit in working down the grits if you're learning with a pre-honed razor. An occasional few light laps on something around 12k can keep the edge in tip-top condition for a long time and allow you to hone little but often. Get some cheap vintage razors to practice on with the norton sets, now and then send a razor out for honing or buy one shave ready for comparison.

I managed to achieve an HHT-9 with my Shapton 30K one time. I borrowed a fine red hair from a girl at work and used it for the test. As I got the hair about six inches from the blade, it apparently saw the edge, started to whine, trembled, turned gray and got a split end. It was pretty sad.

My old pappy once told me "Hones should be like drivers licenses. "When you pass the test with one hone (level) then you get to go on to the next (level)".

Yep, good advice on this thread. Now for the reason why. If you don't get the keenest of edges on your blades for the entire length of the blade all you will be doing w/ the 12k or higher hones is polishing the bevel and practicing your strokes. Actually your first hone should get the edge as sharp as possible w/o burrs. every other hone used will be polishing the edge to a finer level. If you don't get the best edge on your coarsest hone you probably don't have the patients to get there with the next hone because it will tale much longer w/ a finer hone. using a 12k or finer hone on a razor that doesn't have the keenest of edges or has an edge with a burr will not improve anything more than the shine on the bevel and the quality of your strokes, if your paying attention to what you are doing. Good luck with your new hones. You will find them useful for many years of honing. I shaved comfortably off an 8k Norton for quite a while back when it was the standard finishing hone on SRP.

I am reading this thread with great interest because its exactly the question I have been pondering. Everyone's advice has been use/learn how to use the 1k 4k 8k norton stones which is what I am doing right now. I have been getting good shaves off them even though I am very much a rookie at honing. I plan to stick to these 3 hones for a while until I get lots of experience. None the less it is an interesting question. What does a 12k hone "add" as far as the actual shaving experience? A smoother shave? a sharper edge?

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Originally Posted by mav13

I am reading this thread with great interest because its exactly the question I have been pondering. Everyone's advice has been use/learn how to use the 1k 4k 8k norton stones which is what I am doing right now. I have been getting good shaves off them even though I am very much a rookie at honing. I plan to stick to these 3 hones for a while until I get lots of experience. None the less it is an interesting question. What does a 12k hone "add" as far as the actual shaving experience? A smoother shave? a sharper edge?

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A smoother shave? Yes A sharper edge? yes, thats coming off an 8k shave ready edge.Certainly not a night and day difference.
I never heard of a honemeister sending back a razor at the 8k level, that said should answer all the question.

I've been sending razors to pros for evaluations regularly. Although it's a bit disheartening to find out I'm not up to snuff, it's a very valuable experience that I highly recommend. If you can find one, which it seems you already have, I'd use that resource as often as you have the 4 dollars it'll cost you to send it and get it back. Don't bother with a 12k til you're passing by their standards. I've got several finishers....SEVERAL, and have only received 3 passing grades out of six razors sent. The most beneficial tool so far has been the Norton 4/8, but even the stone won't give you what time and open ears will. Honestly, I think every razor I sent out was pretty good, but results have been spotty. Expert evals are the way to go!

Thanks to everyone for their replies. I ended up going down the rabbit hole thread called “JANorton 2012” that Lazarus suggested (dunno how I missed that one). I read, and read, and read and barely made it back here. I watched some videos along the way too. Special thanks to gssixgun for all the time and effort he puts into SRP, making videos, and making me laugh. Thanks Glen.

Hopefully I’ll take delivery of the new stones today and I can begin honing my razor over the weekend. To pinklather, when I get to a point that I think I have a decent edge I might take you up on your offer to critique it.