Naniwa or Not Niwa?

I bought what I thought was a Naniwa Superstone from eBay (about 8 Months ago). The packaging looked fine, but the more I use it the more questions I have.

Colors looked right when I bought it. Marked S3000 and S8000 on the end like a Naniwa should be.

When I am honing I can feel occasional random lumps in the grit while honing. Larger on the 3000 grit and a few smaller on the 8000 grit. Not on the stone, it's smooth. It may be from the Duct Tape I am using on the spine, but I can't be sure.

Is this common in the Naniwa stones, or did I buy a cheap copy of the original Naniwa?... or is it just the Duct tape?

I have started questioning lately when I realized I can cut arm hairs coming off of my 1000 grit Norton India, then can't cut hair after 3000 grit on this stone. If I progress through the 8000 grit then go to my C12k. It just feels like I fall back a bit on the 3000 and make it up on the 8000.

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Im no pro but i would venture to say the duct tape may have something to do with it. duct style tape has cordes running thru it with could cause issue during honing.

any reason you use duct tape and not just e-tape?

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Originally Posted by KindestCutOfAll

When I am honing I can feel occasional random lumps in the grit while honing. Larger on the 3000 grit and a few smaller on the 8000 grit. Not on the stone, it's smooth. It may be from the Duct Tape I am using on the spine, but I can't be sure.

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Do the lumps go when you rinse the stone ? If so they are additions & not part of the stone ie they are dust or tape or hopefully not chunks of your razor. ;)

what size is that stone? Looks a little narrow in the pictures.
The usual naniwa combi stone size is 210 mm x 70 mm x 20 mm or 8 1/4 inches long by 2 ¾ inches wide.

Do the Stones say "S 3000 and S 8000" on the front side?

Did you flatten the stones properly?

You know, I had a similar issue with a King Ice Bear 6000 grit stone that I bought off of amazon. I've seen a bunch of videos where guys ending on 6000 grit stones can hone knives sharp enough to shave with, so I thought that this King 6000 grit stone would do the trick, too. But no dice. The more I grind on the stone the duller my straight razor seems to get (to the point where it no longer shaves). Honing it on a belt loaded with chromium oxide seems to bring back enough sharpness to shave with (although certainly not comfortably).

So I honestly have to wonder if the stone I bought is genuine. I think there might be something to the idea that they are cheap knockoffs.

I doubt it's the duct tape. I've seen youtube vids where gssixgun sharpens a straight razor from dull to shaving sharp while using *duct tape*--my bad--yeah it is electrical tape, not duct tape, so I think it's unlikely that it is the duct tape.

Have a look at the vid: gssixgun honing for JaNorton 2012 1.wmv - YouTube

After doing some reading on the wiki on this site, I've recently purchased a Norton 4000/8000 grit stone from a trusted straight razor vendor (straight razor designs--made by the same guy who founded this forum, Lynn Abrams). I'll let you know how it goes. Maybe between us we can figure this out.

*thanks for catching the mistake, tlittle

Gssixgun is using electrical tape, not duct tape. As noted above, duct tape does have a kind of cloth or cord component running through it. I'd imagine this could probably affect the bevel angle at the very edge as the cords could hold the spine just the tiniest amount of space off of the hone and if you didn't have the exact same tape placement the next time around the angle could be just the tinest bit different, which makes a lot of difference if your hone isn't reaching the edge of the razor :)

Go for electrical tape if you're going to tape. It's a consistent thickness, smooth, wears relatively well and shouldn't leave any noticeable particles behind.

Ditch the duct tape and use electrical tape.

My Naniwa Chosera has some sort of "writing" on it's sides, but none of my Naniwa SuperStones have any of it on the stone besides the "S____" denoting grit..only on the base in the plastic.

Ok, It's true when they say you have to learn your stones and how to use them. Thanks all for the assistance. I have started to lern them on another level all together.

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Originally Posted by BenjamanBarker

Im no pro but i would venture to say the duct tape may have something to do with it. duct style tape has cordes running thru it with could cause issue during honing.

any reason you use duct tape and not just e-tape?

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:shrug:
Come on, I'm a guy! It was a gut feeling that the Duct Tape would be more durable. I also didn't have any electrical tape and I have been making do with it for several months now.

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

Do the lumps go when you rinse the stone ? If so they are additions & not part of the stone ie they are dust or tape or hopefully not chunks of your razor. ;)

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Yes the lumps are washed completely away when I clean the stones. :hmmm:

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Originally Posted by Lesslemming

what size is that stone? Looks a little narrow in the pictures.
The usual naniwa combi stone size is 210 mm x 70 mm x 20 mm or 8 1/4 inches long by 2 ¾ inches wide.

Do the Stones say "S 3000 and S 8000" on the front side?

Did you flatten the stones properly?

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Yup, I flattened them properly and beveled the edges just as I should have. They are marked as I have expected.

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Originally Posted by tlittle

Gssixgun is using electrical tape, not duct tape. As noted above, duct tape does have a kind of cloth or cord component running through it. I'd imagine this could probably affect the bevel angle at the very edge as the cords could hold the spine just the tiniest amount of space off of the hone and if you didn't have the exact same tape placement the next time around the angle could be just the tinest bit different, which makes a lot of difference if your hone isn't reaching the edge of the razor :)

Go for electrical tape if you're going to tape. It's a consistent thickness, smooth, wears relatively well and shouldn't leave any noticeable particles behind.

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Originally Posted by shooter74743

Ditch the duct tape and use electrical tape.

My Naniwa Chosera has some sort of "writing" on it's sides, but none of my Naniwa SuperStones have any of it on the stone besides the "S____" denoting grit..only on the base in the plastic.

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Alright here is the bottom line. I spent the weekend getting to know my stones. 3 stones (220/1000 Oil Stone, Naniwa 3k/8k, C-nat), 6 razors (Mappin & Webb Trustworthy, J R Torrey 156 Our Barber, King Razor Guaranteed Double Temper, W H Morley & Sons Clover Brand, Electric Cutlery, and a Henckels Zwillingswerk) and made sure I took the time to pay careful attention.

The Norton and C-nat are very slow cutting and don't slurry by themselves when honing. The Naniwa is a fast cutter and slurries readily when honing.

Everything I read on the topic of all these stones was correct. I just needed to pay more attention to the stones as well as the razors.


Here's what I learned this weekend:

Honing on my Norton was slow but consistent. I built a little slurry on the Norton from the C-nat and it did cut a little faster. I watched the Duct Tape and saw very little wear.

I took the razors to the Naniwa and noticed that they were cutting much faster. I did not notice any lumps at first, then as I started feeling them I inspected the Duct Tape. The wear was Huge. I replaced the tape and cleaned the stone. When I started honing again, NO LUMPS in the slurry. If I kept the slurry thin I rarely got any lumps. When I did get lumps I changed the tape immediately. Also moving through thin to no slurry did give me a nice cutting edge on both the 3000 and 8000.

Finished each on the C-nat to a nice polished edge.

1. It was the Duct Tape and not the stone. I will buy some E-tape and try that in the future, but can work with the Duct Tape also. Just have to change it when it starts to wear.

2. I need to do a lot of work with slurries to understand how to use them better for cutting fast and/or polishing slow.

3. My rating of these razors for hardness in order:
King Razor Guaranteed Double Temper (Pretty hard steel, can't wait to shave with this one)
Electric Cutlery (This is my second. My first was a favorite I gave to my son. They hold a great edge.)
J R Torrey 156 Our Barber (probably a tie with the Electric Cutlery, but the blade is more slender so takes an edge a bit quicker)
W H Morley & Sons Clover Brand
Henckels Zwillingswerk
Mappin & Webb Trustworthy
(The last three are all very close in hardness. They probaly could change in order on any given day. I'll have to judge more closely how well they hold this edge.)

4. I now have 6 freshly honed razors with fantastic edges. :y

5. Paying closer attention to my honing is actually giving me a better edge than I was getting before. I'm excited to see what kind of edge I can get after more practice. WOW!!!

Thanks all !!! :rock:

Sounds like you had a good time, hope the shave is even better!

I've found not using any tape works fine in most cases.

Most of us who have been honing for a few years will recommend learning to hone with tape. The reasoning behind it is that while learning there is no since on wearing out the spines on razors. Once you have honing down, then by all means go without tape...if that's what you choose. This was recommended to me when learning & it was good sound advice then...and now.

Another member helped me identify the hone.

It's not a Naniwa. It's made by Suehiro.

I'm not very familiar with this manufacturer. Do they make good stones? So far I am satisfied with this one.

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Originally Posted by KindestCutOfAll

Another member helped me identify the hone.

It's not a Naniwa. It's made by Suehiro.

I'm not very familiar with this manufacturer. Do they make good stones? So far I am satisfied with this one.

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Judging from what I've heard they're fine stones, just a bit on the soft side, which means they wear relatively fast and need more lapping than e.g. Naniwa super stones.

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Originally Posted by Pithor

Judging from what I've heard they're fine stones, just a bit on the soft side, which means they wear relatively fast and need more lapping than e.g. Naniwa super stones.

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Very true they are soft. They actually slurry easily as you hone. I have to keep watering the slurry down.

I have one in 3K and it is a very soft stone...but a very good one. I would say as good or better than my Nani 3K with a LOT more meat on it's bones. I soak mine about 5-10 minutes before I hone to let it drink it's fill before I start honing.