1k - BBW - Coticule Does anyone else even use this any longer???

I have a question that just came to mind as I am soaking the 1k before I hone a few Sheffield razors..

My goto stone for English steel is a Select Grade Coticule, but I realized that it has been quite some time since I have read about this progression, about 5 years ago it was pretty much the standard way to procede with these...

Does anyone still use these stones in this fashion, I know I didn't for the longest time because I haven't had a BBW since 2009 but I bought a new one and have gone back to using it again... I have been doing the 1-4-8 or 1-3-8 then a Coticule since 2009 but switched back about 2 months ago ..

Anyway it was just a thought that occured to me so I thought I would ask :hmmm:

I use a BBW as a prepolisher don't know if I am using it in the right progression though. I have a 8x2 BBW I bought for $5 so I figured I would at least try to use it. I go 1k vintage fast coticule with slurry, BBW with water only, then coticule with water only.

I have been using the DMT E, BBW, and Coti progression, as described in the wiki, for about a year and a half-- and have yet to find a razor that cannot be tamed using this method. I have used razors finished on other stones that leave a sharper edge; but to my face, the coti is the most comfortable that I've come across. Just my dos centavos.

I used to do that progression too. Like you I read it and it seemed pretty good. At some point I stopped doing the bbw and just did slurry on the yellow (bevel already set on a 1k) and did the dilute thing. I may go back and try the bbw before the yellow just to refresh my memory. I do recall that the progression seemed to work well.

I just started this recently, after a discussion with Nate (Maxi). I'm getting the best edges I've ever honed myself. I do notice that it's not as sharp, but very smooth.

I don't use the 1k-bbw- coticule progression but, after setting a bevel I usually just finish on the BBW starting from light slurry. My BBW has alot less slurry dulling so 9/10 times I'll get great edges from it, its a bit slower than my standard coticule though. so I set the bevel on the naniwa 1k or coticule.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by justalex

I don't use the 1k-bbw- coticule progression but, after setting a bevel I usually just finish on the BBW starting from light slurry. My BBW has alot less slurry dulling so 9/10 times I'll get great edges from it, its a bit slower than my standard coticule though. so I set the bevel on the naniwa 1k or coticule.

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I did one that way, but it came out a little harsh. Is it that I didn't go long enough on the BBW or do I need to finish on something else?

I usually get harsh edges if I either use too much pressure, started with too thick a slurry or diluted too quick. It doesn't happen so much now but sometimes the bevel wasn't completely set and I'll have a tiny line reflecting light right at the edge of the razor, that sometimes makes it a bit harsh.

If you try a very light slurry and dilute usually the BBW can pick it up, depending on how your BBW performs of course :) but generally BBW are slower but can get to the same level of edge a coticule can get to

regards Alex

I tried the BBW twice, using the procedure outlined in the BBW study .pdf on coticule.be. Of the two blades, one was harsh. On the last 3 I did (this wk), each was harsh, but more keen than I can get w/ the yellow. Once the keenness is there, the coti seems to tame the harshness - or go to another stone for smoothness. I've not seen the method in the wiki here, but now you can bet I'll be trying it.
BTW, Good to hear your experience w/ it, Alex. Thx for posting.

Coming off the 1k, I think it depends how fine the 1k takes it, sometimes you can get away with quite a thin watery slurry. stropping strokes I've heard make a difference to the softness off a BBW.

I've started doing 2 laps on linen after bevel setting to remove any thick slurry at the edge before diluting, seems to reduce rough edges, giving the thin slurry a clean edge to work on.

regards Alex

This is all pretty interesting. Next time I hone a razor, I'm going to try a test shave after the BBW-- now that I think back on it, the BBW does feel like a very keen edge when using the TPT.

Thanks for the posts guys.

I go Naniwa 1k, BBW with heavy slurry through 5 diluted passes of 25 laps, 8k Naniwa finish on Coticule.

The first two years I learned to hone i used dmt1200, bbw slurry, coticule with water. Then i got my norton and forgot about the bbw stone, its just so hard and slow for a sharpening step imo.

Sham has blue natural stones, unknown, that he sells for about thirty dollars and are 3k level. He found a big rock somewhere and had it cut to hones, which is where it came from. This hone is fast as heck on water and works a lot easier than a bbw stone. I sold my big bbw because it was inferior to this new stone.


Dilution came into the mix too and i guess it became more desirable to new honers...but imo dilution is trickier than a progression based method.



EDIT:

I have also found that old Coticules thate are glued or natural combination stones have a belgian blue side that seems sometimes less effective to hone on. As mentioned in a million other threads the mine didn't use the BBW side for honing back in the day, just as a useless base. I know it is speculated about new belgian blue stones being sold for honing and therefore may be a more effective cutting stone than layers in the past...But who knows?

I do know that I have had old Coticules with belgian blue on the back of the coticule that were near worthless as cutters.

I know on Bart's new forum: Artisanshaving.org some people are using this method.

OOH I forgot to ask...Does this mean another honing video?!

YAY!

Thanks, Glenn lol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

I have a question that just came to mind as I am soaking the 1k before I hone a few Sheffield razors..

My goto stone for English steel is a Select Grade Coticule, but I realized that it has been quite some time since I have read about this progression, about 5 years ago it was pretty much the standard way to procede with these...

Does anyone still use these stones in this fashion, I know I didn't for the longest time because I haven't had a BBW since 2009 but I bought a new one and have gone back to using it again... I have been doing the 1-4-8 or 1-3-8 then a Coticule since 2009 but switched back about 2 months ago ..

Anyway it was just a thought that occured to me so I thought I would ask :hmmm:

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Hi Glen, I use 1k BBW and coticule and / or thuringians, on almost all my razors with very good results. The problem with BBW is same with all coticule, you have to find a good one. I do couple of X strokes even after coticule with slurry, just before coticule with water only, and improve the keenes of the edge, but again, I found the variation of the BBW stone to be same like Coticule stones. Just my experience.Regards

I can tell you I actually enjoyed the shave this morning from this razor..

http://straightrazorpalace.com/custo...elebrated.html

As many that have read my threads and posts have noticed I am not a huge fan of old heavy Sheffield steel on my face, fact is, in my collection (near 100 razors) I own 2 Sheffield razors... This shave this morning was very comfortable and I pushed it even did a full ATG pass, mainly because of this thread...

As to a Vid ??? Really everything I did is already in there I just added the BBW in the middle instead of some Synthetics

Chosera 1k bevel set
BBW light slurry to train the edge to the stone about 20 Pigtails, dilute out for the next 20 or so X strokes maybe 15-20 out on clear water
Coticule same as BBW above maybe a few more X strokes on clear water...


I am not so sure of a desire to shave off the BBW I guess it is plenty sharp but so is the Chosera bevel set, but under the loupe at 30X it looks about the same scratch pattern as a 3-4k Synthetic.. I know I can smooth it up some with tricks but it isn't something I would aspire too,, Just way to many excellent finishers in the "Hone Chest" to me it would be the same as wanting to make a 4k Norton, a 5k Naniwa or even a 6k King my final stone, I know I could, but I just don't chose to :(

My first BBW was on a Vinatge Coticule, and it worked, I think this 8x3 that I just got works better, but not a huge difference, and the difference might be I like the 8x3 size the best :shrug:

I have very much confidence in the BBW. A good progression for my honing style which includes the BBW goes like this:

Chosera 1k, natural 3k from Sham, BBW slurry to clear OR just slurry, Norton 8k, Nani 12k, Thuringian.

Works for me.

JERRY
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Have you tried skipping the bbw and just going from Sham's 3k to norton 8 k? Just curious...

Same question BBW to 8K?

[Quote: Same question BBW to 8K? Quote]
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There is a school of thought that the more hones you use, the fewer strokes you will need and the fewer mistakes you will make by overhoning. This advice comes to me from one of the more famous honemeisters who shall remain anonymous for the time being.

No two honers do it exactly the same way and each of us has the knowledge brought to us by our own experiences. 44 years in my case. You are you and I am me. All I know is that my edges clean my face all the way down to bare skin with no stubble. I had the benefit of a very good personal mentor and for that I am very thankful.

Jerry
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Thank you>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

1k - BBW - Coticule Does anyone else even use this any longer???

Not for a few years now but at the time my Belgians were small/slow stones. No complaint re edges just time taken. I imagine an 8x3 would speed things up some.

When I started honing, BBW was one of my favourites. But I no longer use it. It's the slowest hone I have ever used for a 4k grit stone. Coticules are exceptional hones, but BBW are just a by-product of them. And I have more than a dozen of them, the bigger is 12x3". For honing a couple of razors, I can't say it isn't a good choice after a 1k hone and before a coticule. But for more razors, or knifes and bigger sharp instruments, I don't think it's a good choice.

I've been doing the same thing lately as well,although I've found not all my BBW act the same.
Steel and Stone.: My first Flaschner re hone
I have a combo nouvelle vein/bbw bout that works great on the bbw side. makes great slurry fast, cuts even faster and does not seem to dull the edge. I can go from the 1 K to it and get arm hair popping in 2 laps sometimes.

I also have a vintage 6x2 coticule with bbw on the other side that doesn't cut that well at all and makes poor slurry with the same bout. I was setting the bevel just now on a 4/8 wedge a friend gave me with a frown and the plan was to go

chosera 600
chosera 800
norton 4 k
norton 8 k
coticule

but then I caught this thread and instead of the 4 k norton I went to the nouvelle vein bbw and it worked like a charm on thickish slurry. then onto the yellow side of hte nouvelle vein on light slurry then add another layer of tape and do a unicot. we'll see tomorrow. It feels like English steel but it's a New York Company called Kidd and Dehart "supreme custom wedge"

All of my sheffields responed well to the BBW for the low grit range. It just works so fast and easy. Nothing on water though but the slurry is fun to use without worry about dulling.Attachment 94140

I haven't used my blue belgian sides on my two natural combination hones (La Veinette and La Verte) for quite a while, but I used to use my La Veinette in a progression of:

- yellow w/slurry (I guess equivalent to the 1000 grit)
- blue w/slurry
- blue w/half slurry and water
- add layer of tape
- blue with water
- yellow with water

I got some really good results. Apparently the blue side on water doesn't effectively do much, but for the rest the method is still in my "Honing method book" for that sad day when nothing else works.

My blues, especially the La Veinette, are a joy to hone on, although I noticed my La Verte blue side (with yellow popping through here and there :) ) has some dents.

After 10 +/- months of great shaves, my honing fell flat on its face. After the 1k shave challenge, I put the blame on my 4k. 1k to bbw to coticule has been my saving grace.
Even though my combo is very small (1.25"x5") I enjoy honing on it much more than my norton combo.
Not sure why my 4k is failing, but it very clearly dulls my edge. :(

That's my honing setup, although i add a king 4000 between the 1000 and bbw. This is my standard progression unless something strange happens, which usually does :) I have a slate stone that i've shaven comfortably off but still don't know where to fit it in with the rest of my stones, not easy to figure that out.

-10 circles on the king 1000 with Coti slurry
-15 light strokes on the clean 1000 King
-4000 king with coti slurry then just water. 30 strokes.
-BBW with coti slurry, 30 strokes diluting to water.
-Coticule with light slurry 10 strokes
-Coti with water 20 strokes
-Coti with Baby oil for just that little bit more that seems to do so much for my shaves (i know baby oil is a little unconventional)