Dry Honing... Arks

Hello all, I would like some feedback. I was reading an ancient article from Google Books that talked about honing with water, with oil, and dry. It mentioned that dry could get you really great smooth edges. So I thought to myself, "I have used water and oil, maybe I should see what dry does..." So I am not using my King Waterstones, they are synthetic and not made for this I am sure.

But I do have aq pair of Arkansas stones and maybe I should try dry honing on my arks. Now on my hard ark I got a really unbelievable bevelset, and I got a really beautiful finish off the Surgical, popping hairs before it even touched them, well, that may be an exaggeration. I also figure since I don't have any water or oil to remove the excess metal that I will have to brush or rinse them well. Does anyone else have some experience with this?

'Not tried it on Arks, but have on coti, Asagi. In each case, the result is different from honing w/ water, but not the same between stones. Either way, it will likely give a different feel or effect that's worth knowing about.

Juranitch recommends in his book that all hones be used dry. I have honed a couple of knives this way but not my preferred method. I always use water for razors.

Michael

I've honed on Arkies with water, oil and dry. All three ways can give great edges. My personal preference is oil. Using oil, for me, gives the edges more smoothness than the other methods which will leave the edge scary sharp but less smooth. Of course this is all YMMV. What works for me might not for you.

I wouldn't make a habit of it. I'm not speaking from experience BTW, since I've never honed dry on anything but a barber hone. The oil on an ark or water on a waterstone is not only lubricating the surface, but also acts as a vehicle for the swarf to be carried away, preventing clogging the stone. Add to that, even if honing dry provided a good edge, I don't think it would be superior to that attained with water or oil. Just IMHO.

I didn't notice much out of the shave test this morning, it was about the same as shaving with one that had been honed on the water stones. I did of course use linen then leather strops to soften the edge a bit, but it cut just as smoothly as the other, and I didn't notice any difference in the shave.

You just gave me a great idea. I will use one of my blade pairs (blades that are the same size by the same maker) and hone one wet and one dry, then shave half my face with one and half with the other. I have two Simmons Hardware Barber's Pets that are about due to be refreshed.

OFF-TOPIC: I know it takes longer, but I really like the finish I get on my Surgical Black Ark (so far either way).

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Originally Posted by Yochatman

OFF-TOPIC: I know it takes longer, but I really like the finish I get on my Surgical Black Ark (so far either way).

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+1 ...... with oil in my case. :)

With the prices that the black and translucent Arkies are going for now, I think it's safe to assume that the secret is out on these stones.:)

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Originally Posted by Yochatman

OFF-TOPIC: I know it takes longer, but I really like the finish I get on my Surgical Black Ark (so far either way).

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I've got a translucent Ark that I've been using as my primary finisher for a few weeks, and the edges are just ridiculous, especially on harder steels. With mine, I've found that 100 x-strokes using Smith's honing solution gets me to the sweet spot. How many strokes are you using to finish on your Surgical Black?

I refer to it as "honing-to-dry" and it can work exceptionally on many water stones (Norton 8k for sure) I haven't ever tried it on an oil stone though..

I use it all the time now on my very hard Nakayama leaving the slurry to dry slowly as I very lightly hone to finsh, there is a noticable difference in the feel and the actual look of the edge compared to wet...

This is not only a YMMV but a Your Stone Will Vary, you gave to finish the same razor both ways to decide which gives a better feel to your face

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Originally Posted by myersn024

I've got a translucent Ark that I've been using as my primary finisher for a few weeks, and the edges are just ridiculous, especially on harder steels. With mine, I've found that 100 x-strokes using Smith's honing solution gets me to the sweet spot. How many strokes are you using to finish on your Surgical Black?

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Honestly it depends on how hard the metal is. On my Morley when using the black ark wet it took me 300+ I only counted to 200, then kept going, but on my Shumate it only took 100.

With the Hard Ark dry, I took an edge on a Wester Bros. that had a few minor blemishes/chips on the edge from rust and did 50 Circles each direction with a little bit of the weight of my hand added to the weight of the razor, then did 40 each side, then 30 down to 10... Or 150 total reps Turned it over and did the same thing on the other side of the Hone. Then just weight of the razor 100 laps, and added another 50 after looking through my 30x jewellers loupe. Then moved to my surgical after I saw the bevel had been set and did 20 circles with a little added weight from my hand on each side turned it over and did another 20 with just the weight of the razor, no added pressure. Stropped it on linen, cotton, then leather.

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

This is not only a YMMV but a Your Stone Will Vary, you gave to finish the same razor both ways to decide which gives a better feel to your face

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A +1 to that too. Even if they are the same brand , the razor will not necessarily be exactly the same. So many variables with this sport it is difficult to compare with exactness.

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

This is not only a YMMV but a Your Stone Will Vary, you have to finish the same razor both ways to decide which gives a better feel to your face

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I used to do this with coticules. Ended up thinking (as someone else suggested) that I was honing on residual moisture anyway. My experience was that it's a bit as above.

There's a great article on honing in the '77 Popular Science Mag. Just look under: Dry honing Popular Science Mag.

My favorite stone is a hard Arkansas. I usually use it dry, which works very well for me. With water, lather or oil it still works well; can't say if it's much different than without. If you're referring to the expert John Juranitch, I believe he wrote that a honing fluid on a frangible stone like silicon carbide sharpens less well becauseithose tend to form a slurry. Slurries cut fast but actually can dull a fine edge.

use oil for best results on oil stone's, you can use the stone dry but the stones pores will clog fast thats what the oil is for. once you clog the stone's pores you'll have to either lap it or let oil set on the stone to soak in and then boil the oil out of the stone to lift the swarf out of the pores.

I pretty much always use my Swaty dry, then again I'm only doing 3-5 strokes. I've tried Escher and my Charnley. The Charnley seems so penetrated with oil, I don't think it matters much anyway. I've also done this with my (OS) Nakayama Maruichi Asagi, It seems to excel when dry. I wouldn't do a lot of work, or lot of strokes, more a finishing thing, very few strokes, 10 maybe....YMMV.

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Originally Posted by eleblu05

use oil for best results on oil stone's, you can use the stone dry but the stones pores will clog fast thats what the oil is for. once you clog the stone's pores you'll have to either lap it or let oil set on the stone to soak in and then boil the oil out of the stone to lift the swarf out of the pores.

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I've used Arkansas stones for decades, mostly with oil and believed as you about clogging. However for last 3 years or so I have been using them dry, and cleaning them occasionally with water or water with a little dish soap. (I usually hold the stone upside-down when rinsing so that the water drains away from the stone.) The swarf seems to wash out of them quite well, and I haven't observed any glazing of the stones.

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Originally Posted by JeffR

I've used Arkansas stones for decades, mostly with oil and believed as you about clogging. However for last 3 years or so I have been using them dry, and cleaning them occasionally with water or water with a little dish soap. (I usually hold the stone upside-down when rinsing so that the water drains away from the stone.) The swarf seems to wash out of them quite well, and I haven't observed any glazing of the stones.

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i'm sure this is true with razors using lite pressure but using oil helps break the surface tension and give a better edge imo