What do you know? What do you think?
I want a little finisher in my Den - this one just keeps calling to me.
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What do you know? What do you think?
I want a little finisher in my Den - this one just keeps calling to me.
Oh - I have two barber hones and a coti in my den now... was thinking something a bit finer.
Thanks Scipio!!
Man I am not sure that helped lol!! : ) There were more than a few senior members disagreeing with each other on those threads lol!! "Me thinks I just needs to pays my moneys and take my chances" lol.
Thank goodness the Euro/dollar thing isn't as large as it once was lol!
Thanks again.
Hey you think finishing on it before each shave would be overkill?
You shouldn't need to finish on a natural before each shave, they are not barber hones and I assume you are only using the razor a maximum of once a day. It looks like an interesting stone to have, but for that price I'd just get a vintage Thuringian. Why take the risk? I think 120 Euros plus shipping is pricey given that there isn't any certainty regarding what you are getting. The same could be said about large coticules, but they at least can be sold by the vein and/or some experience from the vendor.
Bottom line is at least two very experienced members whose opinions I regard highly which may be found in the first of the threads annexed to my earlier post do not believe the Frankonian to be as fine as Eschers (Thuringians) and for that reason alone I chose not to buy one. That is me. Having Thuringians and other finishers I am not in the market for any more pre finishers as I have 8K artificials and several coticules for such tasks.
I'll entertain the speculation that if it were significantly more affordable, I'd buy it on impulse.
From what I know they are the finest finishers from Europe, many samples are better than eschers. The quarry has its own site, selling tiles and decorative items mainly. I asked them regarding their hones but so far they don't answer any emails.
Well we are in the same boat in that I don't need a pre finisher either. As natural finishers go, $160 - $180 isn't too bad with respect to an impulse buy considering Eschers are a small fortune, Jnats are from what I see at $300+ - Thuringians are about the same price as a Frankonian from what I can see at about $150.
What did you pick as your finisher Scipio?
Seems like the Frankonian might be possibly a gamble, you might get a fantastic one or you might get a not so hot one. Like Scipio said
you just cant go wrong with a Thuringian, it has been proven time and time again about its finishing abilities.
Actually easy to figure it out because most finishers are always compared to the thuringian!
I finish on a YG Escher. I have another German hone called a Schwedenstein which I use from time to time also. It is in the same league as vintage Thuringians.
I'm not stating that Frankonians are pre finishers per se. It depends what you consider to be a finisher. If you currently finished on an 8K as some do, a Frankonian would be a finisher in its own right and if Olivia is selling them then they likely are. I haven't used a Frankonian but those whose opinions I trust who have used it claimed it was inferior to a YG Escher and by that token it would be rendered a pre finisher in my progression.
Vasilis, have you any literature clarifying what you know (other than the vendor's site!) ?
It depends from the seller. I don't think a stone that is sold for over 100$ has not been tested by the seller. If the standards are low, you might not receive a good one. But I think that Frankonians or whatever they are called, (I don't think this is their actual name, pretty much like the PHIG, someone named it as he sees fit) have some great potential.
LOL - well isn't this is just like me - I ask a question, confuse myself even more, and will then ultimately choose to do nothing lol. You know... for a month or two anyway : ).
I have Naniwa 10K, a Chinese 12K, and a couple of Coti's I use as finishers - before the Dovo pastes anyway (I can't figure out my Ark). You know - I don't "need" another, it's a sickness is all lol. I just like rubbing my blades over rock. : )
There will be no big difference. With a couple of coticules and a C12k, no matter the stone you buy, after stropping, you will get the same results. That's my opinion anyway. There are no definitive answers on those questions. Especially for naturals. You can't be sure what you bought or what it is until you try it.
I own a Frankonian stone.
It is a very very hard stone. I have found that if I take a shave ready straight and do 30-50 laps with slurry,then dilute down to water I get a nice sharp and smooth edge.
Been a few years but the way I recall it .... Olivia's brother found some hones over there and she dubbed them "Frankonian." She reached out to me and asked if I would assess the quality of one of them. She sent it to me and I did. I found it to be something like an 8K IIRC. I think I sent the one I got to both Sham and Lynn and if I'm remembering this correctly, they drew the same conclusion I did on that particular hone. So that one certainly wasn't comparable to an Escher. Shortly after that she began marketing them and I guess they improved in quality? :shrug:
FWIW...I agree with Vasilis. More often than not the proof is in the person doing the honing, not in the stone! I just picked up a natural for a song ( http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...s-origins.html ) ...I have no idea what it is. But after using it from start to finish with a series of slurry stones, I find that it puts as fine an edge on a razor as any stone in my arsenal. At least my face can't tell a difference... :D
Wouldn't it be easier to just contact Olivia and ask her about the Frankonians she has for sale? If she fails to respond don't buy and if she does you can see if she has a stone to your liking. I assume she should be able to tell whether a stone is a pre-finisher/finisher/fine finisher considering her hone collection and honing experience.
I've only seen them in pics.
Judging from what I have read about these stones, there is a big variation among them. Looking at the description, she puts it around 16k in grit, and there isn't any mentioning about variability, I think for a good reason. For about 150$, it is a very expensive gamble, so I wouldn't buy one. If you wan't some new hones, buy a few C12k stones, they vary too, but they are much cheaper, and bigger too. If you want a Frankonian, and you have the money to spare, than buy one, maybe you will get lucky, just don't think that it will make too much of a difference to your existing stones, if any.
the franke between Escher and Shapton ... very, very hard. no slurry. really like a Charnley. purchase rather have a ozuku and put $ 100 on it.
here is a threath with testing from the German Forum. Is is a best stone....but you must going from 1000-3000-5000-8000-10000-Naniwa and escher and Prefinish Franke......It is a interess Honing.....a Ozuku a level 5 + + + costs more
From what Sham told me once they are around 8 k level, I trust his stone ratings more than anyone's...
Did you send an email?
Olivia sent one to me and one to Sham ...... maybe others too ? We, me & Sham both came to that conclusion independently. I am thinking I sent the stone to Lynn for his opinion but it was so long ago I don't remember for sure. One way or another, I don't have the stone anymore.
the old ones are brown as a Thuringian .... they are around 15000-30000 .. k the news from Olivia are gray ... I also wanted to buy ..... but in Germany, have all discouraged me .. They are now at about 5000 6000k ...... as old and new Thuringian ... Previously, Escher 15000k today 8000k .... a good day ... Charnley is better after Escher
As Hatzicho has mentioned before, the difference in assumed grit rating of the Frankonian could well be due to not knowing how to use the stone - I don't think Sham has got himself a crystal ball yet! From the german forum Hatzicho linked to, the stones were used as the very final finisher as they were so slow, and their effect was magnified by using a layer of tape on the spine of the razor so the cutting action was seemingly increased. Maybe it's just this lack of basic data that has led to an erroneous conclusion - none of us are immune to that now, are we? One could try a japanese natural high-end finisher without knowing anything about them (unlikely, I know) and reach much the same conclusion until someone explained how the grit breaks down and becomes finer.
It must be a thankless task assuming the mantle of God - a move to another forum often assists though.
Regards,
Neil