Arkansas Hones???

I have been looking at picking up a hone set from norton. The 220/1k, 4k/8k, and flatting stone kit but I keep seeing the Arkansas stones. I have read people use them on straights but I have no idea what grit they are. I have only seen them labeled as hard or soft. Can I get a shave ready edge from one? The more I look into it the more confused I am. Should I just stick with the synthetic norton's that I know what grit I'm using or are the natural stones better.
I just sent out a blade to Lynn to be honed and I bought a vintage boker to practice my own technic and plan on using the one Lynn hones as a measuring stick.

P.S. I found some one who buys the norton and cuts them into1/4's and sells them for like 1/2 the price is this worth it ?

Both the arks and Norton's will get the job done. You will need a full run of both to bring a razor to shave ready. I have both and when I use hones I prefer the arks.

However for new honers here I recommend the Norton's. The are easier to get ready and there is far more wealth of knowledge on this site about using them. The fully set of Norton's are a good deal.

As to if the whippeddog deal is good it really is a personal choice. Different people like different sized hones. The only thing to remember if you go with the whipped dog deal is you will have to adjust some of the numbers(ie: laps) that are given on this site to fit your stones.

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Originally Posted by KDiMan

P.S. I found some one who buys the norton and cuts them into1/4's and sells them for like 1/2 the price is this worth it ?

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AFAIC, the cut up nortons are NOT worth it. YMMV.

My ideal honing set ...... what I personally use, a DMT 325 D8C for lapping. Good for kitchen knives too. The Chosera 1k for bevel setting. The Norton 4/8. A high grit finisher is optional. Until you can get a stellar shave honing with the 4/8 a higher grit stone is something you're not ready for IMHO. I've got Arks too and they are good but for razors the nortons are better for a beginning honer, and arguably for a veteran honer.

You going to see "YMMV" a lot in this forum. A lot of what we do is personal preference. Some guys like Arkansas stones, and some guys like the Nortons, or Shaptons, etc...you get the idea. If your just starting out, I'd go for the Norton 8x3's 220k/1k, 4k/8k and flattening stone. It's a good deal, and the same set I started with. We have a thread called "Janorton" You'll find all kinds of good info about the honing on the Norton's there.

Arkansas stones are not rated like the Nortons, They are basically, Soft, Hard, Surgical Black, and Translucent. Some debate as to which one of the last two are finer. You also have Washita, and the tri hone sets...

I prefer Arkansas stones for my knives, not razors, but that's me. Some guys love the edges they get off the Arks.

Also being that arkansas stones are a natural product they can vary on the grit.
my vintage clear norton arkansas stone is much finer then my newer one from them.

If you're just starting to learn to hone, go with the Nortons.... however, get the full size set. The ones that have been cut are usable, but I think they're too small to learn with. 8"x3" is a great size for straight razors, and I really don't like using smaller stones unless they're finishers. I couldn't imagine trying to set a bevel on a 4"x1.5" hone.

As has been said, all Naturals are different and will produce “different” results. If you are new to honing you want to remove as many variables as possible so you can observe the results of your actions.

Having learned to hone on Arkansas stones and now experienced the wealth of stone materials available today or better said the knowledge of the stone materials available today, synthetics are far superior to developing honing skills. The internet has made a wealth of knowledge available to all of us with the ease of a few key strokes, that information before was passed only in books and word of mouth.

So for the novice, quality, large, synthetic stones (Norton, Naniwa or King) are almost a guarantee of success. Once you have developed the skills to consistently keep a razor flat on a hone, cut an even bevel and sharp edge, then branch out and experiment with naturals. I have seen complete dual grit synthetic stone sets for under $150, a great way to obtain quality tools to learn on. Cutting corners will only cause frustration, develop poor skills and in some cases cause novices to give up.

A large percentage of honing skills are acquired late at night, alone… razor in hand rubbing steel against stone, make your life easy…er.

ok once more,CAN you get a razor to shave with an arkansas stone?my grandfather never had all theese crazy stones he had the same red turkey,and an ark that i have,and both are hollowed,now with that said i bought another ark thats about the same,as the one he used 700 to 900 grit.will it work?

As a newbie, go with the Nortons. They are 3" wide and cut fast. Arks are slower cutters and not as wide. The width makes the Nortons easier to master for beginners.

You can depending on what ark you have and what other stones you have.

Chris,

Yes, I can…

It is doubtful …you can.

At least, not without a lot of frustration…lots of time on the stones and a lots of help.

Today, there are much better, easier alternatives. Your grandpa probably also drove a model A. Driving one on LA’s freeways, will get you killed.

The only Arkansas stone that I have would fall into the finisher category, so I can't speak as to whether you can truly take a razor from completely dull to shave ready using only Arkansas stones. My guess would be yes, but I can't help but think that you'll become frustrated long before the razor shaves well. Go with synthetics (either Norton or Naniwa) to begin with. You can always add some natural finishing stones to your arsenal later. FWIW, I've been shaving off my Norton 8k as of late, and I'm not sure that I don't actually prefer that edge over some of the other finishers that I've tried.

The bottom line is like so many other things. It’s not the tool, it’s the craftsman. I learned on arks so I could still do it, but I no longer do. Occasionally I finish with high grit Arks, but not bevel set. It might be an interesting exercise / competition.

I’m sure people like Lynn, Six-gun and other mega honers here could get a razor shaving off of a rock from the beach. But that is a result of their skill level and the ability to pick the right rock.

There are guys on the net that sharpen/hone on bricks and other crazy stuff. It can be done, though I doubt it is the smoothest, repeatable, most comfortable shave.

There are better, easier alternatives.

As said above, it can be done. I spent years honing my razors with nothing but a Smith's Tri-hone and a sugical black Arkie. Did I get close, comfortable shaves? Yes. Once I discovered synthetics, however, all but my finishing Arkie's have been replaced. Synthetics have the benefit of repeatability and speed, which can take a lot of the headache out of honing, especially for a novice honer.

Speed! You want it, you don't want an Ark. I, however, could care less about how long it takes to hone a razor. I have a lot of Shave Ready razors, and a Swaty that works great in refreshing when needed. It's rare I have to go all the way back to a bevel set.

I actually went to synthetics for a while, getting the king series 1k, 4k, 6k, and 8k, but I actually am one of those really weird crazy people who actually enjoy my shaves better off my Ark. Now, like my earlier caveat, it may take 30 minutes to get a straight razor from Butterknifed to shave ready on my kings, and more like an hour and a half on the Arks, with a lot of pressure on the Washita to start. But I do feel a much higher sense of accomplishment knowing that I am using good old quarried in the USA stones for my shaving pleasure, plus, the shave just feels better from my arks. I have never used a Chosera 1k, but I do hear they are awesome and much better for a beginner hone set, but I know also that the king 1k is also very beginner friendly and cuts pretty quickly!

Whatever you do, good luck, and happy shaving.

P.S. Once when trying to hone a SS razor, it took me somewhere in the vicinity of 600 laps... Actual number may vary as I stopped counting at around 400... to set a bevel on my SOFT Ark!!! So, lesson learned, don't try to set a bevel on a stainless razor with a natural Arkansas stone!