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Hey guys, forgive me if this has already been discussed. I'm wondering what grit is a hard arkansas stone is, I realize they are all going to vary, but what is the ballpark? I already own a nice nox-all barbers hone. I leave the major honing up to the pro's . Just wondering why I don't hear more about the arkansas stones in the razor world. Thanx for any input.
You probably don't hear about them because they work best on oil (which you don't generally have in your bathroom). Actually, they work fabulously on WD-40. Because to condition and level them, you need abrasive of some sort. And because the stones that are good for a razor are expensive.
A good dense or vintage fine hard black arkansas will do a good job, and a translucent (regardless of the color) will do a great job. The totally smooth stones that have a yellowish tint and don't pass light are also great.
The underlying particle size in the fine stones (according to norton) is about 6 microns. But your objective with an arkansas stone is to get the surface to break in, and then they will cut flat wide grooves and make a very keen edge.
I think they work great. On steel that's friendly to natural stones, I get as good of an edge on my oilstones as I get on any stone I have, maybe even a bit more keen.
And for some reason, the edge of an arkansas stone in my experience really responds well to the strop, better maybe than something that cuts deeper but narrower grooves.
Arkies are lower grit usually and absolutely sloooow cutters.
what type of hard ark do you have an older ark or is it new
I frequently use my Surgical Black Ark with a natural dish soap as a finisher. I find it leaves a wicked sharp edge that is surprisingly smooth! While the natural Arks are american standard lower grit, the Surgical Black and Translucent act better than my c12k. But I don't like using them after water stones, for some reason they don't react well that way for me. I like to use the natural Soft, Hard, Surgical rotation.
Now, I must say that you can easily shave off the Hard Ark, but it won't be as comfortable. I don't have any experience with the translucent, but if it is anything like my Surgical, it will polish the metal nicely, just be very careful as it is really easy to kill an edge... One misstep and your whole bevel is gone!
There is a mismatch in the groove shape for a waterstone if you try to follow it by a fine oilstone. Alundum / Alumina and SiC waterstones cut narrow deep grooves. Following a medium waterstone with a fine oilstone is like digging a bunch of lines with a pick-axe and then trying to remove them with a snow shovel.
You literally have to make a lateral jump, which sort of cancels out the purpose.
I get super results by taking a large hard ark and keeping one side agitated and fresh and letting the other side break in, and then following the fine side with a translucent arkansas.
regarding the comment above, if they are used in progression with their own type, they're plenty fast. The mismatch of groove types causes problems if you don't do a whole progression, unless you do the typical suggestion here which is to get the edge sharp with your finest stone and then make a lateral jump over.
They will not be that excited about anything with carbides in it, they definitely prefer simpler steels.
I've found that you can bridge the gap, so to speak, between artificial waterstones and Arkies by using a barbers hone in between.
i use water stones before my ark with no problem in fact its faster and all around a better way to go 1k,2k,5k,8k,12k,16k, black/translucent
That'd definitely be a lateral move or better. You just don't want to go from a 2k synthetic to a translucent arkansas, despite the hard ark being no finer than a 2k synthetic, its grooves are a lot shallower.
Dave,
I have a surgical black ark. Whatt do you do to break down the surface quicker?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveW
I use mine with tools for a week or two (without re-lapping) and they're usually broken in. Some of the really fine ones seemed really coarse at first, probably because of whatever was used to lap them leaving a rough surface on them.
If you have anything hardened steel and flat floating around, you can probably use that with light oil until the stone surface seems only slick and without bite.
I have taken two fine stones and rubbed them together (like we'd do with anything else) to get a head start if a fresh stone seems really aggressive, but they will both still be a little aggressive after that, I guess two stones rubbing together are stripping a little bit of abrasive from the surface of each. Still follow that up with tools every time until they feel like they've got no bite at all.
i have a very good routine for breaking in arks. i frist lap the ark with a dmt 220 then once flat i move on to a dmt 325 that is very worn to smooth out the stone. i use water in the frist two steps . after im done with the dmt 325 i let the stone dry and take a translucent ark that has already been made flat and i rub the two stones together until i get white quartz powder all over the stone.(rubbing them together dry) i repeat three times. on to the last step i put oil on the stone and use a piece of tool steel and i rub the stone down to finish the smooth out process i rub the stone until i can see some swarf on the stone repeat three times and your stone is broke in
Thanks for all the info guys.
I have a translucent Arkansas that I got from Dan's which I've been using with plane and chisel blades (and taking care to work the whole surface). Although I'm a long way off from needing/daring to hone a razor (my first one is on the way from The Classic Edge right now), I'd just need to add a hard arkansas to be able to use Dave W's honing method mentioned above.