Hone Thickness - Naniwa and Norton

I'm not doing a vs. thread, but more of a comparison. I was on SRD and trying to visually compare the thickness of the stones. In this case, i'm looking at the Norton set, the Norton Individual stones as well as the Naniwa Set and the Naniwa individuals.

What i'm trying to find out is the following:
How thick are the stones? single,combo,etc
Are the Naniwa stones removable from the base like the Norton?
I've heard some say that one stone has a "crisper" finish than the other? what does this mean, and can someone elaborate?

Thank you all and have a great day :)

I have the Norton single grit @ 1" thick. The combo stones are about the same but only 1/2" of each grit. I like the single grit stones because you don't need to soak the 8k and if you have the inclination you can turn the stone on the side and hone a warped blade on the 1" surface.

The naniwa superstones are available at 15mm IIRC with no base. You have to order them from Germany or Japan last time I looked. Not sure how thick the ones are with the base.

Edit; I didn't remember correctly, the no base naniwa are 20mm

http://www.fine-tools.com/naniwa-stones.html

10mm or 20mm thicknesses are available on the base (for the superstones), at least that's what they were when I bought one a long time ago.

You have to do a lot of razor restoring to go through one, if you're just buying razors for personal use then all of them will last a long time.

Maybe Lynn can weigh in too he has honed way more razors then anyone with these hones,,,

My first set of Norton Combo stones had over 3500 razors on the 220/1-4/8 when I gave them away the 220 was practically new, the 1k and 4k were pretty beat up, the 8k was used but will probably last another 3500+ razors..

I have the Naniwa SS stones with the bases attached, they don't come off easily, there is a thread where somebody pulled them, but I have never even thought of doing it.. I want to say 15mm sounds about right for the starting thickness (Honestly I am not at home so I can't go check)... I can't see really any wear after 1500 + razors on them except for the 1k it is showing some wear...

Thanks for the thickness answers, much appreciated. How do the end results compare as far as naniwa and norton. Someone had mentioned to me that one was "crisper" than the other, which was smoother. Am I just unfamiliar with the terminology?

The naniwa 12k superstone has smaller particles than the norton 8k and from what I could tell on tools was a bit finer. It definitely put a much brighter polish on tools and had a smoother feel. I wouldn't be surprised if the norton 12k particles were have the size of the norton particles or less. Between the two, if I already had something in the prepolisher range, I'd get the naniwa, just my preference. If you do a good job with either and follow with chromium oxide, I doubt anyone could tell the difference between the two.

Personally I thought the edge off the naniwas was not sharper per say, but smoother than the nortons. If you are interested in the naniwas without the base check out Chef Knives To Go: Kitchen Knives, Chef Knives, Shun Knives, Global Knives, Wusthof Knives, Henckels Knives, that's where I got my naniwas from, and they were good to deal with. My only gripe :soapbox: (with norton) is that they don't go farther than their 8k. I am not knocking them, so don't get me wrong they are good stones from everything I have read. I just wish they would add on to their line of stones is all.

Forgot to mention if you use the site I gave above they have all the stones measurements (in mm's of course), and no the bases on the naniwas aren't meant to be removed they are epoxied onto the stone itself; just meant to keep you from buying a stone holder like you would with thicker stones...like the baseless naniwas :) Also, I wouldn't really go about prying the bases off the stones either; just a mental picture of the stone flying into the air and the base going the other direction with a loud crashing/crunching sound to follow :boohoo:

I think i'll go with the naniwas baseless and get the additional base. I like the idea of having double the thickness of stone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tiddle

If you are interested in the naniwas without the base check out Chef Knives To Go: Kitchen Knives, Chef Knives, Shun Knives, Global Knives, Wusthof Knives, Henckels Knives, that's where I got my naniwas from,

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The OP was asking about naniwa Super Stones without the base. That site sells them with the base. The Choseras , also naniwa, seem to be the line you are referring to. Never had a base and far more expensive than the superstones. A totally different animal really .... I mean in sharpening characteristics.

looking on that site, it did answer one of my questions. The stones are thicker without the base than with. doubled, actually. hmmm...I just might get the naniwa set or the norton set with 12k naniwa....i'll post whatever I end up getting. Thanks guys :)

There is a link that says "all naniwa stones" they are under there.

The Naniwa's do come in 10mm and 20mm. We chose the 10mm with the bases as a result of the testing I did with them before introducing them to the straight razor environment. I found them extremely easy to use and found that the bases were awesome for me in everyday honing use. Since this time, we have had very little interest in the 20mm stone size or without bases other than an occasional request. Some agenda driven stuff shows up on the forums occasionally on this subject, but it is what it is. The tool guys had these stones for a few years with minimal sales as the Super Stone can be gouged easily with planes and other stiffer tools, etc, but they really took off for honing as a result of their use by folks here.

One of the things I was most impressed with was that these stones had a softer feeling and great feedback, which was perfect for straight razor sharpening. It was like they had been made exclusively for honing straight razors. Another thing I liked was that the 1K Super Stone was every bit as quick a cutter as the Norton 1K but was not as abrasive and did not tear into the spines of razors as quickly. Surprisingly, the 5K edges looked almost as polished as the Norton 8K too. For me, both the Nortons and the Naniwas work very well with every make and size of quality razors. I don't find that they favor any kind of decent razor differently although ymmv.

From a purely honing stand point, I found that the Naniwa 5K and 8K were just as consistent for me as the Norton 4K and 8K. I also found out that you could use the Naniwa 3K with the 8K and have similar results to the Norton 4K and 8K. You can shave off both the Naniwa 8K and the Norton 8K. The Naniwa's using either the 3K or the 5K and the 8K worked as well with Pyramids as the Norton 4K and 8K. The Naniwa Super Stone was definitely in the finishing stone category for me and gave edges off either the Nortons or the Naniwas that little something extra. In sharpness and smoothness shaving. I did find that the Naniwa Chosera 10K, which I also consider a finisher provided a little coarser shave, but was entirely acceptable.

I still wear out 2 Norton 4K/8K combo stones a year and that is primarily from wearing out the 4K part of the stone into the 8K side. I think both sides are right around an inch thick, but would have to measure to be sure. I should use separate stones, but I am so used to the combo stone and that is just my personal preference. Normally, I get around 2,500 razors honed before having to replace this stone so for the average user, it should last years or a lifetime. I do lap or clean this stone after every session with is normally 12-24 razors.

On the 10mm Naniwas I typically wear out the 1K and the 4K at around 3,000 razors. I have not worn out an 8K or 12K yet but have been close.

From a results standpoint, both the Naniwas and the Nortons are very consistent for me. I rarely do pyramids any more in favor of the circle process. To me, the feedback from both sets are actually similar with the Norton 4K feeling maybe a little grainier. Actually from a daily honing perspective, I use a Naniwa Chosera 1K, Norton 4K/8K and Naniwa 12K Superstone for about half of the honing I do.

I don't think you can make a bad choice with either. Personal preference is key here as is your preference for size and whether you want to use the bases or a separate base.

Have fun.

WOW, thanks for the reply, Lynn. I now have a much better idea of what i'm looking for in the answers you've given me. It seems the Naniwa are smoother than the norton, so I think i'll go with a set of those this friday! And it gives me a better feeling knowing that even though they may seem thin, the naniwas will last me years. That's one thing I was worried about, too. Thanks again to everyone for their input.

All the best,
-Michael

Thanks for throwing your hat in the ring Lynn; I don't think anyone could give you a better insight to these two particular stones than Mr. Abrams could. Weather you go with Norton or Nanaiwas you will like both I'm sure, but man that 12k Naniwa is my favorite finisher even without going to pastes, sprays, films, or others.