I know belgian co's are great but my concerns are there bad belgians? And what 10k, 12k, and so on are good? Also witch ”cheap” brands (naniwa) are decent finishers?
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I know belgian co's are great but my concerns are there bad belgians? And what 10k, 12k, and so on are good? Also witch ”cheap” brands (naniwa) are decent finishers?
If you are new to the honing sport, I would suggest you to buy a man made stone. Norton 4-8k is the most famous and not too expensive.
The honing skill is more important, an escher doesn't make someone a honemeister.
Also, naniwa SS, chosera, shaptons, nortons, sigma, and many more, are very good stones from bevel setting to finishing and what I would suggest.
With naturals you must find a trusted seller with high standards for his stones.
Naniwa 12k is a great finisher.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swerve
Synthetic stones are great and more consistent than coticules.
The most important thing is learning how and when to use your finisher. For that just continue reading this forum
Michael
Coticules are natural stones, they will vary in terms of qaulity, speed, and fineness. You may not get one you like and may have to return it.
If you go synthetic you know what you are going to get every time.
I prefer coticules as finishers BUT it took me a while to find the one I liked.
Simply put..
Synthetics are an exact science, Naturals are a Romance..
Anyone who has a great natural stone will brag endlessly about the edges that it produces, it gets everyone else salivating to own one..
IMHO the hands first, it is in the touch that makes the biggest difference
Hi Swerve,
Coticules can be good finishers, but I don't know about great, and there are a lot of if's with them. I think they appeal to a lot of us, especially in the beginning because there seems to be a mystique about them and that plays into the same general nostalgia thing we experience when we kind of step back in time and use the same implements and processes our ancestors used. Also they appeal to us guys because they present a challenge, being they're not that easy to acquire (a good one), learn, and master. The truth, I think its better waiting on a coticule until one has become consistently proficient in shaving with a straight they've honed with some good synthetics. Synthetics will be challenging enough to keep anyone busy for awhile. The Norton combo stones are less expensive and very good to learn on and one really should be able to get consistent good shaves from them before going to higher grit finishers. If comfortable shaves aren't consistent from the 8k Norton, a higher grit finisher won't correct that situation. The higher grit finishers are for improving an already good edge, not for correcting a deficient edge from the last stone.
Other synthetics? Naniwa SS are very good and a little less expensive. Shaptons are very good, and my favorite, but more expensive. And, the list goes on.
Just a finisher, 12k Naniwa SS, Shapton 16k and some others mentioned in the other posts. Probably the most cost effective and best choice would be the same brand that you may buy later as your go to stones.
Hope this helps and Good Shaves!!! :)
Regards,
Howard
Edit: Glen beat me to it!! :)
Another good question i would like to ask is what (names please) hone dealers specifically sell quality hones? Thank you
A guy can't go wrong with buying the naniwa 3/8k combo and the 12k as a finisher. A DMT 325/1200 combo as a lapper and all round household sharpen everything stone. Has anyone used the DMT 1200 to set a bevel? It should work but the do remove a lot of metal quickly, a guy would have to be careful.
Cheap and decent...tough to get that couple in a room together.
I say don't worry about a 10 or 12k hone just yet. I say get a Norton 4/8k synthetic waterstone from wherever you can find one for a price you can afford. If you stick with that stone long enough, you'll wonder why anybody uses anything else.
Coticules are basically finishing hones though some members use them for bevel setting with a thick slurry.
If you get one from a reliable source (Ardennes Coticule, classifieds, Howard Schechter) you cannot go wrong with them IMHO. My first hones were a coticule and a Manufactum Thuri.
I don't know about the "much easier", but the thing is just that different coticules can have distinctly different properties. I have tried coticules from six different strata, and one of those was 'bad', as in unsuitable for honing, something which the seller actually mentioned, but I bought two together in a lot. I still haven't figured all of them out exactly and I have my preference, but I have gotten great shaving edges off all five of them. Also from four BBW sides as well, by the way.Quote:
Originally Posted by zib
I don't see the need to scare people away from naturals. It's just a steeper learning curve (Yes, I understand that this is why the general consensus is to recommend starting on synthetics) and a choice that you make: do you want to make it more difficult/challenging for yourself from the start? I answered "Yes" to this one straight away and haven't regretted it. But that was my choice. Others will choose otherwise.
And I don't think anyone in their right mind would venture setting a bevel from scratch on a coticule (i.e. breadknifed/Ebay dull). But for refreshing/re-establishing a bevel most of at least my coticules work (speeds differ, true), within ten minutes.
Lets start at the beginning...you are trying to build a house & put the shingles on it before you have a good foundation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swerve
Most any veteran honer will tell you to stay away from naturals until you have a proficient honing "foundation". Please start out with either a Naniwa or norton 1K to set the bevel. Stay away from diamonds as they are for lapping stones & ladies rings. For the pre-polish & polish please start with either a Naniwa 3/8K or Norton 4/8K (no order of preference given). I didn't mention a finisher for a reason...you don't need one yet.
Once you can produce nice shaving edges off 8K every time, then by all means add a finisher...but NOT until then.
I am giving you the same advice that was given to me several years ago...it was sound advice then and still is.
I have done this, and was not happy with the results. Very deep scratch pattern and toothy edge. I went back over that work with a 1k stone before I felt happy about moving on. I've done it since then, but knowing what would happen I taped the spine then removed the tape and went back to the 1k stone again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scookum
Yes, you can remove metal in a hurry that way. I don't think, though, that there was much net savings by the time I was done with the stone and felt ready to proceed.
Six-gun hit it on the head, but it will fall on deft ears. We are all most probably in this for the same reason.
I collect and use old books, old cars, old tools, guns, fountain pens, razors and stones for the same reason…Amore.
The lure of our halcyonic writing about the great, greatest naturals the Japanese, Coticules, Escher’s, Translucent and rare exotics draw us like moths. The saged warning of pedestrian/synthetic stones to learn on is like eating steak without salt.
So, buy the largest, finest natural you can afford, knowing well there will be a learning curve, just like driving a Shelby AC Cobra for the first time. And… enjoy, welcome to the club.