Natural bevel setter 1000 grit

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I'm working for you all that like hone on natural stone, after have lapped many stones without luck, I think this time I've made bingo.

I've always looking for a natural stone that I can use for set the bevel, but the market don't offer many opportunity, yes there's a Jnat or cretan or the coticule but nothing like I'm looking for.

Now, yesterday I've squared and lapped the first two piece to send to some friends for a test like promise ( Nr.000 go to Lynn and nr.001 to Neil )and today I've add another 3 sisters to the first two and the nice thing is that I've save all the fingers of my hands.

Here some pics and if someone is interesting to have this stone too, please send me PM . Thanks

All natural stones are very slow, and we use them as finishers because their edges feel better than most synthetics. I really like naturals, but for stones 3k and up, for lower grits, all I need is speed.
Nice stones though, look like fine granite. I believe there is a source of whetstones in Italy, from Province of Bergamo if I'm not wrong. The one variety being coarse and another near 1k.

Well Vasilis,

the stone is an extra hard limestone and the cave are on the near of Firenze (Florence).

This stone is moderately fast and without slurry.

Good looking stones, I look forward to hearing how they work. What has your experience on them been?

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Originally Posted by Vasilis

All natural stones are very slow, and we use them as finishers because their edges feel better than most synthetics. I really like naturals, but for stones 3k and up, for lower grits, all I need is speed.
Nice stones though, look like fine granite. I believe there is a source of whetstones in Italy, from Province of Bergamo if I'm not wrong. The one variety being coarse and another near 1k.

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I have a Jnat that is pretty quick on slurry, not quite like 1k Chosera for example, but pretty fast for a natural.

Well Scott,

my experience with this stone was good otherwise I don't put this stone to your attention, but this are my impressions and I prefer that someone else with more knowledge of me write a review. The stones for test start to travel in the next days and we have to have patience to read some reviews. Thanks

Hard white arkansas does it very well, too. A really big one in the US is $30, diamond cut and flat. Does take a diamond hone to keep them active and awake for bevel setting, though.

Those are pretty stones, though. I never get tired of seeing new natural stones, there is just something about them that's missing from synthetic stones.

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Originally Posted by DaveW

Hard white arkansas does it very well, too. A really big one in the US is $30, diamond cut and flat. Does take a diamond hone to keep them active and awake for bevel setting, though.

Those are pretty stones, though. I never get tired of seeing new natural stones, there is just something about them that's missing from synthetic stones.

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Yes Dave, Arkansas are good stones but I don't use usually the oilstones, I prefer hone with waterstones.Thanks

I would like to try one.
I need a new bevelsetter and would like a natural this time

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Originally Posted by Bushdoctor

Yes Dave, Arkansas are good stones but I don't use usually the oilstones, I prefer hone with waterstones.Thanks

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Just as a point of reference, the new ones sold over here from independent miners are usually not pre-oiled, and they can be used with water or water and dish soap instead.

Used is a different matter, though, I haven't seen a used stone that wasn't full of oil.

Have you got a thought about your stones after a dozen or so razors have had their bevels reset? How do you refresh the surface, with a diamond hone like you would do with an arkansas stone, or do they release their grit slowly and stay fresh like a hard waterstone?

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Originally Posted by DaveW

Just as a point of reference, the new ones sold over here from independent miners are usually not pre-oiled, and they can be used with water or water and dish soap instead.

Used is a different matter, though, I haven't seen a used stone that wasn't full of oil.

Have you got a thought about your stones after a dozen or so razors have had their bevels reset? How do you refresh the surface, with a diamond hone like you would do with an arkansas stone, or do they release their grit slowly and stay fresh like a hard waterstone?

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Thank you for the note about Arkansas, I have 4 of them.

I haven't set bevel of 12 razors, for this reason I ship the stone to people which have the knowledge and they are honemeister too, for be really tested.

Don't need to be refreshed with diamond stone because they release their grit slowly with the use.

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Originally Posted by Bushdoctor

Don't need to be refreshed with diamond stone because they release their slowly with the use.

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That's a nice feature.

Good to see that here are few people who still try and go around with open eyes. Alsoare willing to share with others.
Well done. Looking for more reports about them.
As for speed. Most of us who pick naturals we do that for love not speed.

They look very much like Tam O Shanter's....

Hey Guys

I love using natural stones to set the bevel. They aren't slow by any means, they work well with both my honing oil concoction (glycerine mixed with water to mimic oil) and water.


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Carl

I have an unknown which blows my Norton 1000 away. It has been named "the Gnomestone!"
Unbelievable rock! I am finally getting used to it. I Think......

I am urgently waiting for a nice review from anybody?

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Originally Posted by Frameback

I am urgently waiting for a nice review from anybody?

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On the OP's stones? :confused:

On the italian limestone that the thread is about

He sent one to Lynn and one to Neil. I suppose we shall hear?

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Originally Posted by Frameback

I am urgently waiting for a nice review from anybody?

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No review because nobody own one, the first two stone are leaving Tuesday and I think we have to wait some weeks before to read something about.
Be patience please.

A good 1000 grit natural stone is very hard to find. I will be watching this thread. :)

More importantly. Consistence of grit level in this group of hones is not reliable at all.

The thing that you have to consider is that this is not an hone stone, this is a bevel setter, that make his job after 15/20 strokes,after that, you move on next stone which is an hone stone, and follow your hone progression, 4000/8000/12000 and more.

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Originally Posted by adrspach

More importantly. Consistence of grit level in this group of hones is not reliable at all.

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I looked about this stone, it has history as a sharpening stone-hone, so I suppose, it has to be consistent. Not every natural stone is unreliable. Some of them are really good, finishers or coarser stones.

I love natural stones (not all of then tho) and it will be fun to try this stone out!

Whatever happened to this Stone? Did anyone get to try it?

Yes, it's a great stone, if a bit slow. Hard, porous, with nice scratch pattern. I like it.

I may have got a duff sample, but mine was incredibly slow, so slow that I would never use it, least of all as a bevel setter.

I did try it as it came, lapped to 325 grit, and lapped so as to open up the surface of the stone, but this made little or no difference.

Regards,
Neil

I have used a scope, not that that means anything, but 1k scratches I have found are not felt on the skin, even 1200 dmts unless you are riding the blade with lots of pressure. So my opinion of it is(my opinion means jack as YMMV as always) why slow it down and give yourself more work when you can use a synthetic likea chosera or other and get er done faster? Anyway my 2 cents. But curiosity is a given in the hobby.

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Originally Posted by Neil Miller

I may have got a duff sample, but mine was incredibly slow, so slow that I would never use it, least of all as a bevel setter.

I did try it as it came, lapped to 325 grit, and lapped so as to open up the surface of the stone, but this made little or no difference.

Regards,
Neil

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The stone was more like 3-4k level and pretty slow. I think it had two characteristics that made it unusable, way too slow and medium grit.

In a bevel setter I would want to have fast stone that also does not leave too deep scratch pattern. On intermediate stone one would want to have medium speed to slow stone to be sure all bevel setting scratches are removed but the edge is not damaged by speed of honing. This stone lacked either of the qualities.
I am grateful to Bushdoctor for taking the time to find and cut the stone and also send it out for evaluataion. I hope he finds more suitable stone soon.

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Originally Posted by mainaman

The stone was more like 3-4k level and pretty slow. I think it had two characteristics that made it unusable, way too slow and medium grit.

In a bevel setter I would want to have fast stone that also does not leave too deep scratch pattern. On intermediate stone one would want to have medium speed to slow stone to be sure all bevel setting scratches are removed but the edge is not damaged by speed of honing. This stone lacked either of the qualities.
I am grateful to Bushdoctor for taking the time to find and cut the stone and also send it out for evaluataion. I hope he finds more suitable stone soon.

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That's pretty much the conclusion I came to, Stefan. I did PM Lyn about it at the time to see what his findings were. I did try to fit it into a progression, but it didn't really belong, and I came to the reluctant conclusion that it was a stone, not a useful hone.

I echo your thanks to Bushdoctor for going to all the trouble to send out the samples. I am sad that he didn't have a winner on his hands.

Regards,
Neil

There are no natural coarse-medium grit stones that are fast, or come close to what we define as fast. Man made stones are made to be fast, with harder abrasives, and binders with specific characteristics. Silicon oxide can't compare to AlOx, SiC or diamond. It's much softer.

I have seen that, this stone works much faster on softer steels, like classic kitchen knives or inexpensive woodworking tools. But razors are just too hard.

There are many naturals in the range of this stone that are as slow if not slower, and people pay 100-150$ for a piece, just because those stones became famous. I wouldn't go as far to say that, it isn't a hone, just a stone, for this reason alone. Until a few decades ago, pietra serena was a famous sharpening stone.
Nobody is going to compare the speed of a Belgian Blue with that of a norton 4k. And, comparing the speed of this stone against the Chosera, it's obvious who is the winner. I knew when I bought the stone, that it couldn't be even close to the speed of man made ones. But, I still find it a nice addition to my collection.

Is it possible to rate a natural stones grit?
Mike

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Originally Posted by MODINE

Is it possible to rate a natural stones grit?
Mike

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Not really, but I have seen quite a few posts rating Eschers, Jnats, and Coticules grit.

I thank you all the Honemeister that have tested the stone, I'm sorry that don't works like you want, and also thanks to Vasilis, that he appreciate this stone.

I'm still looking around the mountains, when I have free time, to pick up samples to lapping at home and test to look if are suitable for razors, maybe one day.......................

I know that feeling. A lot of hard work for that special hobby.
Remember one likes the synthetic speed and the other natural beauty.

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Originally Posted by MODINE

Is it possible to rate a natural stones grit?
Mike

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Not that old chestnut again.

I think that most everyone here knows that it is just a loose way of making a comparison between stones. What would you suggest we use otherwise?

We want to know a bit, however sketchy, about hone stones and how they perform. Comparing them to other hones gives us some ball-park idea. It may not be scientific, it may be wildly skewed by each individuals perceptions, but what else have we got?

Technical details like specific gravity, mass, particle shape, hardness of the matrix, sedimentary, metamorphic, etc, etc, are far more meaningless than saying a particular natural hone "...leaves an edge a bit like a 12k naniwa hone I own..." At least that gives us more of clue about the natural hones ability. Saying "...it cuts fairly fast and leaves a decent edge..." is far less useful in my opinion.

We use 'slow', 'moderate' and 'fast' to describe how hones perform, and that's pretty loose if you ask me. At least comparing the edge they produce with hones of a known and unvarying grit - ie man-made hones - will tell us what end of the scale we are talking about - bevel-setters, mid-range or finishers.

A bit OT perhaps, but the very language we use is loose, too - unless we happen to be pedants though we usually let it go because we get the jist. Take a few examples:

"New and Improved" - how can something brand new already be improved? It's either new or its old and improved.
"Free Gift Included" - never mind the fact that you have to buy something to get the gift, technically a 'gift' is 'free' or it isn't a gift
"It's Not just Oil - It's Liquid Engineering" - really? Clever old oil.

You don't get the usual suspects whingeing when any of those terms - and many others like them - are used: because we 'get it', just like some of us 'get' what we mean when we try to describe hones in terms of grit rating.

Regards,
Neil (comparable to a 600 grit hone today).

Several members over the years have suggested that by observing the very apex of the cutting edge with magnification, 100x or more, that the abundance or absence of "tooth" can help to determine approximate grit rating. Or at least the fineness of the stone.

I remember one post that stated someone with much honing experience should be able to put a grit # on a stone simply by noting the performance of the blade after being honed on a particular stone. The nearer to shave ready the edge, the finer the grit # of that stone.

At any rate, edge performance is probably a good enough factor for determining approximate grit #. Opinions abound as usual.

I have to agree with both of you and can only say that to me it looks like learning curve. When you start with hones quantification is so important for you but as you progress and have more experience this need for numbers is replaced with quality and personal preference.