Hone advice

OK after reading the one stone thread and the entire Janorton thread I decided to take the plunge and get a Norton 4/8. I found one on flebay as a set that is coming with the 220/1k stone. My question is after doing research here that the favorite 1k is the Chosera. If I sell the 220/1 Norton I am almost halfway to the Chosera. Should I go ahead and upgrade the Norton or is it good enough?

thanks

The Chosera is Mo better, but honestly unless you are honing alot of razors you really don't NEED it...

I wore out the 1k on a 220/1k before I really started experimenting with other Bevel setters here is a write up I did some time back

http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...l-setting.html

But in conclusion, it is your money :p

I think the chosera 1k is worth the $ if you have them to spare. It is not that you cannot set a bevel with the norton. It is a matter of speed and efficiency IMHO. People will tell you that if you don't hone gobs and gobs of razors you don't "need" it. There may be something to that but if I'm out on a trail with a lot of climbing I'd rather be riding a geared bike than a single speed. It is sort of like that if you know what I mean.

I won't have much to add here, except to underscore one part that Jimmy and Glen state.
.
The most critical part of honing is the bevel set.
We spend gobs on Gucci finishers.
Why would we want to select the tool for the most critical operation with only the money that's left over?

Do you need that speed and hardness? If you learning slower is in my opinion better. You have more time to stop mistakes to happen. As for upgrading it later to Chocera. Unless you do a lot of honing the question is more about do you fancy more funky hone rather that that good old workhorse?

I'll offer the alternate opinion, having many 1000 stones. If you're going to buy a dozen or two fix-up razors on ebay, I would stick with the 1k norton.

It's not that I don't like the chosera stones better, it's that they won't do the job any better, and the difference between the two of them is not something that will make or break restoring razors for a hobbyist.

I have 5 stones in that range right now. When I get a new razor in the mail, I will set the bevel with whatever stone is on the bench, it really makes little difference. Any of them will do the bevel geometry right and any of them will leave very uniform scratches for the next step to remove.

If I used any of my 5 stones (or even a slurried hard arkansas or an aggressive slurried coticule) to set the bevel on a razor, you would never know which one I used if I did the finishing process properly. If there was a difference in time between any of the alumina based stones (norton, shapton, sigma, bester, chosera, ...) it would be measured in a minute or two.

(I don't have all of the stones I have because of razoring, I have them because I was on a bender woodworking, where you use a medium grit stone like a 1k every time you hone something, and you remove a lot of wear each time you use it. Even at that, I could get along with any of the 1k stones I have for *that* just fine).

Once you have your shavers, something would have to be mad wrong with a razor that you had in shape to remotely consider putting it on the 1k stone. The coarsest stone any of my "in shape" shavers have seen in the last two years, after the initial restoration, is an 8k synthetic or a coticule. Any more than that is honing off excess good edge (and spine if you don't tape) for no reason.

In my opinion, you're about $60 apart in what you can get for the 1k/220 vs. a chosera cost new. Spend that on another razor or on a more favorable finisher. If you don't paste or powder an edge off your last stone, you *will* feel the difference between finishers if you last finisher is inadequate. If you feel the difference between various bevel setters when you shave, something is way wrong in your finishing.

Thanks for all of the replies, but the decision was made for me. The stone set I bought was advertised as like new used only 1 time. That is probably true but it looks like the guy must have tried to sharpen a chisel using the center of the stones. They are still in great shape with no damage and I got a really great deal so I am happy. They will need a fair bit of lapping though and I think that it will reduce the value of the 220/1k so I will just keep it. After I learn what I am doing then maybe I will pick up a Chosera at a later date. I will need the experience on the Norton 1k anyway so I can compare for myself. Looking forward to honing my first razor. I will keep you updated on my progress.

I know this is slightly off-topic, but I'm an off-topic kind of guy.

How the heck do you lap a 220? I have a 325 DMT but wouldn't that result in
the 220 lapping the 325? Can I use a concrete sidewalk if it's flat?

Well heck Ace, that's a darned good question! I wish I knew the answer! I used the Norton lapping stone when I had a Norton. But I guess you'd wrap some 220 or lower grit W/D around your DMT maybe? I see that suggestion from Zib alot. I've tried it a few times, but never really embraced it well enough to get it right. lol. I'm sure it works. I'd just find a flat table top, and some w/d most of the time.

Yeppers, 220 W/D and a flat surface is what I used, I never much worried about it though, as I seldom used the 220 anyway...

In fact the only time I remember using it in the past was for Spine restoration before I bought a DMT 325,, I don't even own one any longer

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ace

Can I use a concrete sidewalk if it's flat?

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A sidewalk is fine if it's flat. What's also flat is a fresh concrete block from a building supply place.

I pice of thick glass, granite tile, kitchen work top, wet dry sanding paper of sub 220 grit water and elbow grease.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DaveW

I'll offer the alternate opinion, having many 1000 stones. If you're going to buy a dozen or two fix-up razors on ebay, I would stick with the 1k norton.

It's not that I don't like the chosera stones better, it's that they won't do the job any better, and the difference between the two of them is not something that will make or break restoring razors for a hobbyist.

I have 5 stones in that range right now. When I get a new razor in the mail, I will set the bevel with whatever stone is on the bench, it really makes little difference. Any of them will do the bevel geometry right and any of them will leave very uniform scratches for the next step to remove.

If I used any of my 5 stones (or even a slurried hard arkansas or an aggressive slurried coticule) to set the bevel on a razor, you would never know which one I used if I did the finishing process properly. If there was a difference in time between any of the alumina based stones (norton, shapton, sigma, bester, chosera, ...) it would be measured in a minute or two.

(I don't have all of the stones I have because of razoring, I have them because I was on a bender woodworking, where you use a medium grit stone like a 1k every time you hone something, and you remove a lot of wear each time you use it. Even at that, I could get along with any of the 1k stones I have for *that* just fine).

Once you have your shavers, something would have to be mad wrong with a razor that you had in shape to remotely consider putting it on the 1k stone. The coarsest stone any of my "in shape" shavers have seen in the last two years, after the initial restoration, is an 8k synthetic or a coticule. Any more than that is honing off excess good edge (and spine if you don't tape) for no reason.

In my opinion, you're about $60 apart in what you can get for the 1k/220 vs. a chosera cost new. Spend that on another razor or on a more favorable finisher. If you don't paste or powder an edge off your last stone, you *will* feel the difference between finishers if you last finisher is inadequate. If you feel the difference between various bevel setters when you shave, something is way wrong in your finishing.

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I was always wondering should i paste my cheap strops. I bought that 60k grit paste once i never got around to using it.
if i get the razor to shave good do i not need the pastes.

Yes you can use Concrete sidewalk it's very abasive.
plus when flatting stoes this way with water you get a thick mud building up
that don't leave be behind stracts on the stone.

I think the Norton 1k is just fine for amateur use. I can routinely set a bevel using that stone before moving on to the 4k.

I have wanted to trade up to a more exciting bevel setter for a while. I never do because the Norton just works for me. As long as it does, it's hard to justify spending money I can use for something else.

The 220 grit side of the combo is rarely used on razors but it does come in handy from time to time. IMO the 220 is the easiest to lap of all the norton stones. Lapping works just fine with either the Norton plate or the DMT plate.

Michael

Finally got around to lapping the 4/8K tonight and of course I have a question.:p I used a marble plate with 320 then 600 wet dry and all went really well I think. It took about 30 min total for both passes on both sides. The 4k took waaay longer than the 8k. I beveled all edges with 320.

Anyway I went to put the stone on top of the box to let it dry it out and it is very hard to get it to go down into the tabs that hold it in place. Should this be a very tight fit? Will the stone "warp" if it is not kept level?

Thanks

I answered my own question as the 220/1k fits very nicely on the top of both boxes but the 4/8k does not. So I guess the 4/8 is a little larger than normal for some reason. So my new question is does the hone need to be on the box or can I just use it flat on the table?

Thanks

You can lap all four sides of the stone a bit to make it fit. Make sure you do the corners and sides.

You can also just put the stone in the bottom take the top off and hone on it like that.

I have to say though, that's an odd problem. both my nortons fit in the tabs really easy. Maybe contact norton?

Could you take some measurements?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mjsorkin

Could you take some measurements?

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Took measurements tonight on one end of the stone it measures 3.00" on 4k side and 3.08" on 8k. Other end is 2.990" on both 4k and 8k. Measurement between tabs on box 2.964 and 2.966. Not really that big of a deal if I can just put the hones flat on the table or I can Dremel the tabs wider.

This is something i cann't make up my mind on.
I think the next blade of my i hone up.
I would go coticule then finer coticule then a arkansas stone or a cf.
can't go wrong with collecting the things.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DaveW

I'll offer the alternate opinion, having many 1000 stones. If you're going to buy a dozen or two fix-up razors on ebay, I would stick with the 1k norton.

It's not that I don't like the chosera stones better, it's that they won't do the job any better, and the difference between the two of them is not something that will make or break restoring razors for a hobbyist.

I have 5 stones in that range right now. When I get a new razor in the mail, I will set the bevel with whatever stone is on the bench, it really makes little difference. Any of them will do the bevel geometry right and any of them will leave very uniform scratches for the next step to remove.

If I used any of my 5 stones (or even a slurried hard arkansas or an aggressive slurried coticule) to set the bevel on a razor, you would never know which one I used if I did the finishing process properly. If there was a difference in time between any of the alumina based stones (norton, shapton, sigma, bester, chosera, ...) it would be measured in a minute or two.

(I don't have all of the stones I have because of razoring, I have them because I was on a bender woodworking, where you use a medium grit stone like a 1k every time you hone something, and you remove a lot of wear each time you use it. Even at that, I could get along with any of the 1k stones I have for *that* just fine).

Once you have your shavers, something would have to be mad wrong with a razor that you had in shape to remotely consider putting it on the 1k stone. The coarsest stone any of my "in shape" shavers have seen in the last two years, after the initial restoration, is an 8k synthetic or a coticule. Any more than that is honing off excess good edge (and spine if you don't tape) for no reason.

In my opinion, you're about $60 apart in what you can get for the 1k/220 vs. a chosera cost new. Spend that on another razor or on a more favorable finisher. If you don't paste or powder an edge off your last stone, you *will* feel the difference between finishers if you last finisher is inadequate. If you feel the difference between various bevel setters when you shave, something is way wrong in your finishing.

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Dave,

I have learned more about sharpening and hones from your posts in the last few days than I have since I got the basics in honing 15 months ago when I started this process. thanks for your informative, rational and logical posts

I use Arkansas stones to set the bevel as well because that's what I have!

i should post a picture of my collection so far.
i got a few coticules to set bevel then a few to make it shaving sharp.
i got arkansas rocks to they a good affordable choice.
got some j nats with different grits.
I think the other rock that is missing from my collection is one of those
turkish oil stones. If you could find a super fine natural stone dirt cheap secnod hand buy it.
even if it's from arkansas.