Essential number of hones

I've been looking into buying my first hone for my carbon steel straight razor. I used it for a few months and kept a good edge with a leather strop. I used red dovo paste on linen once but was not too sure if I was overdoing it with the paste so I stopped using it. It is time for honing and while sending it out to be done professionally would be quick, simple, and fairly inexpensive, I'd rather do it myself since I need to learn how to hone sooner or later. The main question is what is the minimum amount of different hones I will need to hone and get a really good edge?

I've read on here that the Norton 4k/8k is pretty much the starting point for any starter hone set but have also read that the 8k will leave the razor shave ready but not completely finished for a nice shave. Is this true? Also, I figured if I bought a 12k Naniwa it would act as a nice finisher and if needed for bevel setting and such, I could just spend some extra time honing it but read that it would take days to set a bevel with 12k but I am not sure if it was an exaggeration or it would literally take days :thinking:.

Any suggestions to keep the cost down? Keep in mind that I want the bare minimum and I have a fairly new blade so I won't need coarse hones for restoring :p . Wish I could dish out the money to buy a few hones but then my bank account wouldn't be too happy.

The more experienced members will be along to give you their answers. As a newer member I faced the same issues as you.

You need a set of graduated grits and yet after you get them you won't use them that often if you are taking care of your razor (s) :)

I think you need something in the 1k range to set the bevel and 4k/8k to shave. A finishing stone is nice but not a bevel setter for sure.

Some have set them with a 4k. My inexpensive solution was to use an Arkansas tri-hone that I already had ($22). So I set the bevel with the soft and hard Arkansas stones.

I then bought Japanese slip stones for the 4k ($15) and 8k ($20) and a cut down Chinese 12k ($15) from Whipped Dog.

Another inexpensive way to get into it is to use micro film in the comparable grits. I got an assortment pack for $15. It's easier to use those (IMO) after you set the bevel using something else.

You could just use 1k grit wet/dry sandpaper.

You definitely can shave off the Norton 8k and it will be fine. Maybe not 'perfect' but you can do it. As of late I have been using 8k and finishing with Crox. I have a PHIG but I really do not think mine is a finisher stone. I think it is a crap shoot, hence the name PHIG-People's Hone of Indeterminate Grit. The Norton 4/8k is a very versatile stone. I guess I will get bored of it one day but for now it is great. I also got the 220/1k stone since I purchased some less than stellar razors that I had chips and such. But I mainly have use the 1k. Though I have heard the Chosera 1k is the king of bevel setters.

Speaking from my experience I think an ideal set up is a DMT D8C diamond plate for lapping (flattening) your hones. Can also double to sharpen kitchen cutlery, pocket knives and what have you. If you're not setting bevels the Norton 4/8 or something comparable is fine.

AFAIC if you cannot get your razor shaving decently off of the 4/8 you're not really ready for the higher grit finisher. IOW, you might be going to the finisher prematurely. A full size Chinese stone, known as a PHIG I think, will run you twenty bucks or so at one internet vendor's site. They used to say it was 12k but I don't know for sure. Buying sawed off hones is a waste of $ IMHO ...... YMMV.

Going to the other 'essentials' IMHO ...... get at least a couple of pro honed razors to shave with and have something to compare your own efforts. Now some guys may learn to hone with a barber hone and one or two razors. If I had tried that approach maybe I would have been able to do it , but that is not what I did. I bought ebay, antique shop, and flea market razors ..... in decent shape ..... to practice on.

Hone a razor correctly and well and it will last many shaves. IMO to really learn to hone a person has to practice daily until they get it. One or two razors won't give that much hone time unless you keep dulling it on purpose and going back at it. So more razors to practice your honing is my suggestion. That is my unvarnished opinion for whatever it is worth. :gl:

For my experiences you can feel the apropriate stone for.your razor with TPT. But starting out I bought the King 220-1k grit for.less than 40 bucks and the norton 4k-8k and then chromium oxide on a bench strop then pasted and finally reg strop. But starting out your biggest challenge will most likely be the actual holding of your razor and not using any pressure keeping the razor flat on the stone ( hardest part 4 me was at the end of each.single stroke I would catch myself lifting heel side of blade). If I could give u 2 good pieces of advice though they would be use the.sharpie trick for bevel setting, and watch the water in front of your razor. Both are explained and shown on youtube. Also in ending I have recently purchased naniwa super stone 1k and 12k from SRD. I highly recommend buying from them cheapest pruces I could find. Oh yes annother super important part of honing is LAPPING YOUR HONES. use the method of drawing a grid on your hones. You will never get.a.atraight edge with dips, dishing, and humps in your hones.

I'm a natural stone user but I would recommend as said above grabbing a good 1k at the very least and check out this thread if you havent already

http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...-1k-shave.html

after that you can decide how much sharper you need to get to get a comfortable shave and also have ALOT more options after bevel setter stones, especially when it comes to finishers which I'm not gonna go near because the thread will turn into a 30 page monster discussion.

The best way to find that out is probably visit a honer near you and see what they prefer to use.

as I said I have 4 natural stones that I prefer to do one stone honing with for simplicity, but its taken me a long time to get there and I think you really need to chose to go to naturals yourself. I try not to recommend them for full honings, but for finishers they are good and relatively easy to use and depending on what you want, can be dirt cheap.

regards alex

And I thought the answer should be as many as you partner and valet allow. But seriously you need to decide how fine you want to go and is good enough for your shave. In old times people often had one hone like coti and it was good enough for them lately the number is more like 5. For me as essential I consider 1 Chocera 1000 and good coticule for the rest.

Straightnewb

As I understand your question you only want to maintain a single razor, no repairing nicks, restoring eBay specials, sharpening kitchen knives. It probably won’t work that way… the bug will bite you, but…

When I started out (1974) it was with a single razor, Illinois leather strop/ linen and a 6 inch translucent, all purchased new from my barber with a quick lesson and occasional question. I kept that razor going for years with just that, then bought a Washita and Hard White Ark and more razors. That is how most Americans probably did it for years or barber hone, Europeans used their local equivalents, until synthetics came along in the 80's.

Once as an experiment I stropped a single razor for over a year on a Nylon (Seat Belt type) Strop and MAAS metal polish. The bevel was stria free at 100X and the edge super sharp and very comfortable.

With a Naniwa 12K super stone, a nylon strop with CBN .125 and good leather strop you can keep a single razor shaving super sharp and comfortable, as keen and comfortable as possible today.

The Naniawa 12K Super Stone is the Honda Accord of finish stones, Consistent, Dependable, Fool Proof. It is still the stone I go to when I want a quick keen edge, then to paste or natural finishers. I have had mine for years, it is one of the old pink ones.

Even without the CBN the Naniwa 12K and good stropping technique will do you well and keep you shaving for some time. A stick of Chrome Oxide on a Craft Foam paddle will make it a tad more comfortable for minimal investment.

I think you need a bevel setter (1K or if you are a patient man, a 4K), an intermediate grit like a 4-8K, and then a finisher in the 8K and up range as a minimum for stones. After that you can paste strops or balsa or whatever if you like.

So really, something like a Norton 4/8 is a very good start. People say the 4K side is not a bevel setter and I understand what they mean - certainly it is not the most efficient way to remove a lot of metal - but it can be used to set bevels, particularly on full hollows where there is generally not a tonne of metal to remove. I used a Norton 4/8 for quite some time before branching out into other stones - and in fact I only really bought my first "bevel setting" 1K stone less than 18 months ago.

So really you could get away with 1 combination stone to start with as bare minimum. Get the knack, and move out from there. The added benefit of that approach is that you get to know your stones progressively, rather than grabbing 4 or 5 to start and having to learn how they all work in a big rush (never works out well initially from what I have seen, unless they are 4 or 5 from the same series, like the shaptons on glass, but even then...)

Good luck.

James.

Just a comment for whatever stone/s you decide upon.
First find yourself a honing mentor in your area or drive to the nearest one available. Then learn to to use the hone/s they recommend. Whatever hone/s you decide upon, and then take the time to learn, will profit you well over the coming years!
~Richard

Just one thought: I had my Dovo carbon steel razor honed by SRD a couple of years ago, and since then I have kept it going (using it frequently) with the following equipment: a very fine Chinese water stone (finishing stone), a clean leather strop, a canvas strop, and a leather strop to which I apply some slurry from my Chinese stone (as a fine abrasive paste). That razor is actually even better now than when it arrived from SRD, but I have to admit that I am no good at setting bevels, so I'll leave that to the pros. But barring any accidents my razor seems to be able to go on indefinitely without any bevel setting. :)

Find a honing mentor and visit them. Words on this screen can be full of advice, but there is nothing like visiting someone and really learning. Chances are that if they have been honing for a while, they will have quite a few stones. Anyone can "read" how to hone and give advice on what they have read and interpreted, but a honing mentor can "show you the money".

With that being said, why don't you have your location in your general information? You can use a small town nearby if you are worried about identity theifs. If you are in the NE Texas/SE Oklahoma region, COME ON OVER!

Thanks for the replies

I narrowed it down to the Naniwa 3000/8000 combo vs the Norton 4000/8000 along with their respective lapping plates. I read the thread about shaving off a 1k so I assume either of my choices will leave a blade shave ready. From these two choices, which would you guys suggest? I am kind of leaning towards the Naniwa because of the 3k which will make beveling somewhat easier and it seems like a better grit combo but as a total novice to honing, I don't really know :shrug:.

One more thing, kind of off topic, and I don't want to start another thread. I have a hanging Illinois leather/linen combo strop that is about 4 years old (back when I bought my razor) and was used for a few months and was stored for about 3 years without conditioning being applied :gaah:. I don't remember its original condition but it seems kind of stiff with very very slight warping which causes the blade to get more contact in the middle. Middle of strop has more wear as well. Leather is not cracked though. Is this normal? Figured an X pattern will take care of that. The linen has a little more warping in the middle which kind of scares me to use because I have a feeling if I'm not stropping perfectly, the paste will round my edge.

The more hones the better, in my case at least. I like to experiment, and I enjoy honing and sharpening all kinds of stuff.so if the rock doesn't work too well on razors, it will work on something I need it for!

Norton4-8k is what I have and its perfect for me but 1 question I wanna ask is are you looking into ( or do you have) silversteel? If so keep in mind that silversteel takes a little while longer to hone because its a little harder than most carbon steel razors. And to give my 2 cents on your strop I would just go ahead and get some treating paste for the 1 you have and a lot of sand paper and a block of (as close to straight and flat) wood. Then staple sand paper to block of wood but only on the sides. And lap that strop and work your way up through grits. Id do both sides then crox 1 side. Throw away your warped fabric n buy annother. That bieng said my favorite strop is the 3 inch wide hanging bridal strop from SRD. In thinking about how how your strop is warped I dont think I would not use a strop with the center bieng warped out to u even with x or rolling x patern because bottom (or heel) wouldnt make consistent contact with strop. But I would recommend rolling x on everything thats good n flat.

Theese r just my opinions though, but good luck and have funn!

Maintaining one razor? Get the 4/8 and a dmt d8c. Later get a finer stone. You don't need a 1k stone for one razor.

I would upgrade the strop. A crap strop can really hinder your development. You need a great strop. I recommend a handmade strop like tony miller or srd.

Michael

I Yves had a boker hone paddle strop combo for a few months now and a razor that I thought was junk and likewise for the boker setup. But I was.using it for pocket knives and was impressed so I lapped the hone with 220 grit and 600grit sand paper dry. And soaked it with rem oil a couple times and the hone soaked it up until it started to puddle up then with very little puddle (just enuff to be able to see displacement in front of razor) then started with 15 sets of 30 circles then moderate pressure rolling x strokes 15 and 15 light pressure rolling x and 10 or 15 no pressure rolling x, finally 5 no pressure strop strokes on hone. Then 10 cromium oxide passes and finally stropped on regular strop 40 passes and it was popping hairs like it was a higher quality razor, I guess I'll find out in a few. Next time one of my good razors needs honing Imma try it out it impressed me. And it seems to b pretty hard producing virtually no slurry. IM kinda excited about the hone one never honed a razor start to finish on one hone before.

There are basically four stages of honing a razor.
Bevel-set, sharpening, polishing and finishing.

Now, for maintaining just one user, you do not need a whole slew of stones available.
If you take care of it, and address any loss of keenness as soon as it starts to develop, a simple barber hone or a 4/8 combo hone should last you a lifetime.

Those two mentioned hones, and a whole bunch of other similar ones will take care of your sharpening and polishing.
Finishing can be done on a pasted strop of some kind as an example.

If you get a ding in it or it gets completely dull, a 1K bevel setter would be the ticket.
Although a 4/8 will do the job too, for the patient honer;)

The Delhi actually was a comfortable 2 pass shave.