Thuringian Arkansas stones …?

What do Thuringian hone companies have to do with Arkansas stones?


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Beginning from the late 18^th century until the time just before WW2 the german thuringian hone trading companies like Escher, DSAG, etc. prepared and sold foreign whetstones beside the local thuringian material, that was mined around in the thuringian slate mountains.
Especially coticules and Arkansas stones were cut from larger pieces, lapped and then traded all around the world.
The Arkansas stones were shipped from the States in large oakbarrels to the fabrication sites in Sonneberg and Steinach.

The following pictures show Arkansas stones from the remainder of stock of the “Deutsche Schleifmittel AG” in Sonneberg, formerly Bösenberg, Trinks & Co (BT&Co) and Pike & Escher which was a follow-up of the Escher Company. The company existed until 1963.
Just for the dimensions I have added a small 6’’ Escher waterstone in the following picture.


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Most of the stones are translucent, even the bluish grey ones.

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The stones are fantastic finishers!

wow sweet stones how did you acquire them ?

I have no doubt that those Arkies are good finishers, but how fast or slow do they cut? Thanks

I got the stones from an old retired hollow grinding master from Sonneberg, who had the chance to acuire the stones from the last owner of the Schleifmittel AG in the 1960 ths.

The quality of these older stones is very good compared to a lot of the actual mined Arkansas stones that I have seen or tried. I only got one "new" translucent Arkansas that I kept and that is somehow comparable to these stones.

Like most novaculite stones, the stones are slow cutters, but will give a very polished edge.

I now that a lot of people only use Arkansas stones for sharpening knifes, but I found they are good finishers for straight razors too. I often use Arkansas stones before or in between I set the final finish with my thuringian stones on the straight razors.

wow! What a nice looking collection.

Michael

I got a "German" Arkansa too, so they prob sold to Sweden as well, but it's actually much less dense than other Arkansas (and not as nice looking as the OPs) I've had/have.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mikael

I got a "German" Arkansa too, so they prob sold to Sweden as well, but it's actually much less dense than other Arkansas (and not as nice looking as the OPs) I've had/have.

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That's interesting. What is the company or product name of the stone (unfortunately the razor hides the name in your picture). Are you shure that this is a natural Arkansas stone? I just ask because the name "Arkansas" is written in quotation marks and a lot of companies have produced and stil produce artificial stones they call Arkansas (i.e. the german company Apex). I think the name Arkansas is not a registered trade mark for natural stones from the arkasas region, so companies may be allowed to call their artificial stones Arkansas too.

You could be right, I don't think it's an artificial stone though (but I could be wrong) and I think it's vintage too (could be wrong again though :)), but it sure doesn't look like a normal Arkansas stone.

The brand name has an anchor with two stars on the sides of the anchor:
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From this detailed picture it looks indeed more as a natural stone. But it must be a coarser stone because it is a typical skytestone from the form and if I read correct in your first picture it says "für Se(nsen)... Schneidwerkzeuge aller Art".

I don't know the hole company name right now, but will see if I can get some informations. What is the stone called (still not visible: A?.?R-Wetzstein)?

The name of the stone is:
"Anker-Wetzstein"
... and the rest of the text:
Marke "Arkansas"
fur Sensen, Messer, u. Schneidwerkzuege aller Art
GARANTIRT ÄCHTE QUALITÄT

It feels more like a lime stone, than anything else (I've got a LARGE grind stone wheel in lime stone), but it makes no sense with the "Arkansas" in the name (even though it makes sense for what it is described to take care of).

The stone that's show with the razor. Was that shape originally used for a Sickle or Grass Scythe Blade?

Hi Johnus, nice to see you! :D

Well, for both I think, if my google translater was correct... also a general shape for all kind of cutting tools (once again, I'm no expert on old hone stones, so it should be taken with a grain of salt).

Very interesting posting. Thanks for making this available.

Don

And another 'Anchor Whetstone' Mikael:

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You can see this one also has an 'A.F. & Co' label. I suspect that AF&Co were importers - there are a number of straight razors marked AF&Co, possibly an early incarnation of Abercrombie and Fitch, Incidentally, there are also a lot of HB&Co branded razors!

Regards,
Neil

Just did a bit research for fun....

Razors with H.B. & Co. are mostly known as "H. Böker & Co." Germany with the Tree Brand which can be read in history here: Böker bietet Taschenmesser und Küchenmesser - Unternehmensgeschichte

I don not think that ist is the same H.B. & Co. as mentioned here concerning these both Scythe stones because they have a different "Trademark" which was used here (Anchor with two stars)...

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I tried to find some other traces just concerning the both acronyms (H.B. & Co. W and A.F. & Co. Germany)...
the only reference i found were two companies which are a bit "far" away from sharpening stones business...

There was a A.F. & Co. named "Freymann & Co, Weinheim" which was a company producing "rasps", also there company sign was a "Rasp in a Circle", as there is no Trademark printed on the label of the stone it could be a reference....

The other thing i found on H.B. & Co. is that there was a company called "Anker Werk / Anchor Werk" which was formerly known as "Hengstenberg & Company" or "Carl Schmidt & Hengstenberg" which was in the Beginning a sewing machine company later they produced bicycles, officemachines and cash registers....Their Trademark is a Anchor, but without the two stars...they were in Westfalia, so thats might be were the W is coming from....

Anker Werke - Rechnerlexikon

Both examples are long shot guesses but there were no other findings using the "German Trademark Database" on these issues, though the labels on the stones say "trademark" the Anchor with two stars couldnt be found on the database...

The two white stones are likely scythe stones or something of the sort cut from pike washita material (almost two years late, i know). The red one looks like some kind of incantation of india stone material.

In the 1920s there was a firm called H. B. & Co. W. which stood for H. Bremicker & Co. Werkzeug und Maschinenfabrik in Bielefield, Germany. Their trademark was a globe though. They made tools machines, edged implements back then. Anker-Werke was also in Bielefield - their sign was a simple, single anchor, no stars. Possibly their was a short-lived joint enterprise, with an equally short lived new trademark for the whetstones - possibly.

A. F. & Co. is Abercrombie & Fitch - established in 1892 as the Abercrombie Co by David Abercrombie. He was joined as co-owner in 1900 by Ezra Fitch and the firm became known as Abercrombie & Fitch Co, or A. F. & Co. They had a 456 page catalogue and sold - among other things - outdoors paraphenalia and clothing, rifles, knives edged implements, and sourced a lot of goods from europe through its import arm.

Regards,
Neil

Regards,
Neil

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Neil Miller

In the 1920s there was a firm called H. B. & Co. W. which stood for H. Bremicker & Co. Werkzeug und Maschinenfabrik in Bielefield, Germany. Their trademark was a globe though. They made tools machines, edged implements back then. Anker-Werke was also in Bielefield - their sign was a simple, single anchor, no stars. Possibly their was a short-lived joint enterprise, with an equally short lived new trademark for the whetstones - possibly.

A. F. & Co. is Abercrombie & Fitch - established in 1892 as the Abercrombie Co by David Abercrombie. He was joined as co-owner in 1900 by Ezra Fitch and the firm became known as Abercrombie & Fitch Co, or A. F. & Co. They had a 456 page catalogue and sold - among other things - outdoors paraphenalia and clothing, rifles, knives edged implements, and sourced a lot of goods from europe through its import arm.

Regards,
Neil

Regards,
Neil

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Thanks Neil,

did Abercrombie & Fitch also had a subsdiary in Germany ? I only ask because this bumper sticker explicit has printed A.F. & Co. Germany ?

I don't think they did at that time. The 'Germany' on the sticker is probably due to import law - country of origin mark, like on these A F & Co goods:

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I don't know if you can make out the writing, but the 1950s Puma knife has 'Abercrombie & Fitch Co - Made In Germany' on the blade.

They had a vast number of pre WW1 Luger pistols, imported the first Mah Jong sets (they sent emissaries to China to source every maker they could find), imported goods from Sheffield, Hoffritz made a Slant Bar Safety Razor for them and they had many 'badged' german straight razors.

Their outdoor goods and camping goods were extensive, featuring knives, axes, etc, so it would not be unusual to find they had whetstones for the upkeep of these implements.

However, I could be wrong on both counts - A. F. & Co and H. B. & Co. W. - it's happened before!

Regards,
Neil

My Dad did Shotgun Resto work for A&Fs San francisco store.
Was a real treat to go there several times a year (his forte was true rust Bluing and case hardning with colors)
What a fantastic store,they only carried the best of the best.

Is there a schyte stones made from washita or soft arkansas I just bought one and it look suspiciously like washita


https://auction.bg/Auction/3058673/%...93%D0%98%D0%AF

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My butterscotch(old bone) translucent arkie puts areally nice edge. I have tried whiter ones but did not comepare to mine. It is slow but I think it makes it easier not to overhone especially when you are starting. It makes you a better honer imo because it is less forgiving if your game is not to par(lifting the spine). So it forces you to get better(or quit)!