What to buy and when to hone?

Dear Fellow Razorheads-Have a Chromium oxide coated Balsa strop, along with a nice linen backed Russian Leather strop incoming. Will have 8 razors to rotate, and was told to rotate one razor/week. I do realize that I will have to do a mild hone on the balsa strop when the blade starts to pull, but am wondering when I need to buy a Norton 4K/8K wet stone and start honing. I do realize that I can oversharpen with my Balsa strop and do not want to do that nor ruin the bevel or edge on my razors. I have viewed several mnt. videos and have cases for ALL of my razors. Although I have sharpened machetes, scissors and knives, I do realize that razors are an entirely different technology. Appreciate any detailed feedback on this and stropping. I will continue to read the beginners tips and stickies:)-Gearhead222

I'm no expert but with that set up you can keep those razors going for a long time without touching a stone. When the razor starts to pull give it 5-10 laps on the Chromium Oxide, 50 laps on the linen and 100 laps on leather. You should really focus on shaving and stropping right now. I think stropping is very important and you should be doing around 30 laps on linen and about 60 on leather before each shave.

As for stones, it depends on what kind of "user" you are going to be. An "End User" isn't really interested in learning to hone. They just need something to touch up razors and sends it out to a pro when the finishing stone doesn't work anymore. If that's you the a Naniwa 12k , Shapton 16k or even a barber's Hone is all you need. You should use a finishing stone when the Chromium Oxide isn't enough to bring your edge back.

If you really want to learn how to hone, once again I want to say i'm no expert, a Norton 4/8k is a good place to start. Most say you should learn how to get a good shaving edge off a Norton 4/8k before getting other stones. Some say that's all you really need but I think a finishing stone is important to have. You could also get a Naniwa 3/8k stone for about $10 more. I don't have a Norton but I do have some Naniwa SS and I really like them a lot. I hope that helps and I'm sure the more experience guys will give you better advice.

Dear Mr. Cavazos-Thanx for the very detailed and quick reply! Funny, but the razor is not pulling on my arm-it's just not shaving! I will try to do the least amount needed to get her going. Will try 20 strops on the leather followed by 20 on the linen strop. If that doesn't work, then I will try 5 complete strops on the Balsa Chromium Oxide strop, per good old honemeister Max! If that doesn't work, then I will buy a Norton 4/8K whetstone with a Norten flattening stone, as the whole rig on Amazon is only $89.00:)-Gearhead222

Assuming you bought a shave ready razor from good old honemiester Max. Then the solution will not be
a stone. Re-examine your shaving technique.

Are you saying the razor isn't shaving your arm hair? Did you buy "shave ready" razors? If not, get them honed by a pro. If you did buy them shave ready, did you strop the razor before you shaved? You might have used too much pressure and rolled the edge. Instead of buying the Norton flattening stone you should buy a DMT 325, that's what most people use around here.

Use the linen side first then the leather side. 30 on linen and 60 on leather is a good place to start.

I did not buy it as a shave ready razor. It was advertised as like new and it is. Edge is unblemished, but will not shave. Needs honing and stropping. Please explain what a DMT 325 is ,okay? I understand that the Balsa strop with Chromium Oxide is a great tool to perform light honing, but am guessing that a razor that has NEVER beem honed out of the box will need a professional honing, correct?-Gearhead222

It's a Dovo half ground 5/8 razor. Sending it in to Herr Sprecher. Thanx for the DMT link? So this replaces a Norten 4000/8000?-Gearhead

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gearhead222

It's a Dovo half ground 5/8 razor. Sending it in to Herr Sprecher. Thanx for the DMT link? So this replaces a Norten 4000/8000?-Gearhead

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No! It replaces the Norton lapping stone. The DMT will lap all of your stones and never require lapping itself. It'll last a long, long time!
Dovo is a good razor. I was afraid you might have got one of the "pretend to be" razors off eBay.

Your razor will definitely come back shave ready. Remember, don't strop or anything before you use it the first Time!!

Howard :D

If you have the money start whenever you want. If your razors are coming professionally honed and you will only use one a week in your rotation you probably won't need to use your pasted strop for a long time, much less a stone. I have a razor I bought new over a month ago and it is still shaving nicely with no pull and I used it every day until a week ago when I got a new one. You really shouldn't need a stone for a long while. If you just want to get one and learn to hone (like I did) I would suggest looking at a ton of videos by gssixgun and lynn. They break it down for you real well. I bought a Norton 220/1k,, a Norton 4k/8k, and a japanese natural finishing stone. I have been practicing on older ebay razors and stuff I have picked up at antique shops. I was finally able to get an edge shave ready about an hour ago thanks to Lynn and gssixguns videos and advice.

I'd rotate the razors over a week, using a different one each day rather than using one for an entire week. Mainly just because I find it more interesting. You can shave straight off the Norton 8k; in fact you can shave straight off the 4 (though I've only shaved off the 8 myself) so really having just a Norton 4/8 would work. I have the Norton 4/8 and the Norton lapping stone; I find the Norton lapping stone works OK for me. I also have a Shapton 16k; which is what I normally sue to touch up my razors (10 laps). I guess I use the Shapton as a barber's hone. If I'm bored and think the razor needs it I'll use the Norton and the Shapton. I might do a pyramid on the Norton (20 5, 15 5, 10, 5 all the way to 1 5) and then 20 on the Shapton. In the past I've done 20 20, 19 20, 18 20, 17 20 etc all the way to 1 20 which was a bit over the top in hindsight. I'm still learning so I practice and experiment. The JANorton thread is a great one to look up. Thinking about that now, I wonder if we'll do that again this year? It was a great learning experience and gave me something to do over the hols. We might have enough new members to benefit.

Whoa! Lots of good info guys and thanx! I have a 2.5" Heirloom Artisan Steer hide with Linen strop coming from The Well Shaved Gentleman and just received a very nice 3" wide with felt backing strop from Star Shaving supplies. Is it bad form to swap razors between strops? I do have the Dovo yellow and white paste for the strop and linen backing, but have heard diverse opinions concerning their use on strops. Thanx again!:)-Gearhead222

Linen is excellent to strop on, way better in my opinion than canvas, at least in comparison for me between the Dovo canvas and Neil Miller linen (which I use only on Sundays). What do you mean 'strop razors between strops'? Do you mean use a razor that you haven't stropped since the last shave? If so, that's not really recommended. You can get away with it of course, but it's best to strop your razor before EVERY shave. I strop 30/70 before and 10/10 after for each shave. Don't confuse stropping with honing or sharpening. I'm not even going to GET in to what stropping does or does not do, that question is along the lines of why horses have such tender knees, and many do use pastes, but I use a strop for stropping and a hone for sharpening and call it done.

Here to find out what I'm going on about re. the horses' knees (scroll down)

BTW, where are you situated?

Thanx Carmalo! What is the sequence you are referring to? 30 linen and 70 leather before shaving and 10 linen and 10 leather after shaving or vice versa? Also I have a Big Daddy 3" from Star Shaving with a thick felt backing-tip and end) and was going to apply a small dab of Dovo yellow conditioner paste to the leather (tip and end) and apply a dab of the abrasive white paste to the tip and end of the felt back.IIRC, I was told NOT to apply anything to the Miller Leather/Linen strop. Thanx again for all of your help:)-Gearhead-PS-Almost forgot, but I'm in Austin, Texas!:)

(Carl :p), yes, 30 linen 70 leather. I wouldn't apply anything to either strop, myself...

Beating a dead horse that's been canned and shipped to France, but with a shave ready razor that's been used once, do I just do the 10/10 afterwards and then do the 30/70 when I'm getting ready to shave again with that razor? As always, appreciate the advice:)-Gear

Well, that is actually a good question. When you are new to stropping you can 'roll the edge'. What that means is basically lifting the spine of the razor off the strop so the actual cutting edge of the razor comes in contact with the strop. You should always try and keep the spine of the razor on the strop and not lift it. Also you should flip the razor on its spine and NOT try to go too fast when you are learning. I'd even recommend less laps, i.e. maybe do 15/30 at first and build up from there. 70 laps is a lot, and one can easily loose concentration of one doesn't REALLY try and concentrate. So, imagine you've bought a razor that IS shave ready, or just got one back from being honed professionally, stropping poorly can dull that newly honed (and probably stropped by the honer) edge. Shave with the razor that's shave ready for the first time (and depending on thickness of growth, amount of face you'll shave the first time, etc) even the first FEW times without stropping. I shaved for a few weeks without stropping as I didn't have a strop at first. I actually stropped for the first time on rolled up newspaper. As you get better, you'll strop before each and every shave to remove the micro corrosion, etc etc.

Here's the 'stroptober' thread that had some good videos in it.

Carl

Carl-Thank you again. My first shave was pure bliss with a shave ready blade-4 nicks and this was with 4 passes in some spots:) I have to learn the proper technique, so I do NOT shave until I have had my java-same will apply to stropping;) Also ordered some Camellia oil with applicator-very $. Will keep all of you updated-Gearhead

Cool, good to hear you're on a roll :p

Yah baby!:tuHad a very productive talk with Sham the man this evening-Gearhead222

Hey Gearhead

I think I am following the thread here and you have got some good overall advice. Just have a few things to add.

First with the big daddy do not apply the dovo white to the felt if you haven't already that paste and felt does not get along.

Second if you have multiple shave ready blades I would say pick one and shave with that till it will no longer shave even after touch ups on the paste. This will do a couple things for you as a new shaver. First it will let you get very familiar with that razor and that will help you get all the aspects of the shave down. I find each razor even of the same width shave a little different. Second once that razor is dull going to a new razor will really show you how far you have come in your shaving. Third you don't run the risk of ruining all your edges as you learn to strop.

Lastly with 8 shave ready razors and the basala strop I would say you probably won't need a hone for close to a year or two. Though you may want one sooner. As has been said the norton 4/8 k is a good starting point. The 8k can be used as your finisher and can be used like a barber hone. For me I like a 1 k hone and then a full run of dovo paste (green, red, and black) for my sharpening needs. So there are other options. One advantage to the paste method that I like is that you use stropping motions that you have already learned.

Dear Carl and Castel33-Thanx again for the quick and detailed replies!:) Just finished shaving with a shave ready Morley full hollow ground and she shaved great! Dried off the blade and scales:) That makes sense about not stropping a shave ready blade. Another member suggested buying a couple of inexpensive practice razors -Hope that I can find some clean ones:) Take care all-Gearhead

If you've already got 8 razors I'd say practice on one of them. The problem with inexpensive is that 'inexpensive' might mean dull edge (you'd need to set the bevel) or a warped blade or chips etc. I think if you're a beginner to honing, it's an easier way to learn via doing touch ups at first. You could get a Shapton 16k or similar and do just 10 laps on that (I may have said that before). Then, later on, progress to either intentionally dulling the edge or getting a razor that isn't at all shave ready and working on that. Again, the JANorton thread is a great way to learn. The idea of that thread/project was to take a shave ready razor, dull the edge by running it across a bottle, and using ONLY a Norton 4/8 to bring it to shave ready. The idea was to be a little minimalist. later on you could get a bevel setting stone (1k) and tackle a bigger job. I don't have a bevel setter myself, I've used 1k grit wet and dry wrapped around the Norton 4/8 to set the bevel. It worked for me. Generally, I'd rather buy shave ready razors and work at keeping them that way than buy dull razors. The reason for this is that at the moment I don't want to spend TOO much time honing, and I'm not good enough at it to tackle too many problems. However, the razor I did start from scratch with had multiple problems, so it was a great learning experience.

I'm glad you're having fun :-)

Thanx again! Just received some Japanese Feather blades and it IS true what is said about their sharpness. Used one in a vintage Gillette razor dialed to 9 and not only did it shave ultra close, but very few nicks!:)-Gearhead222