Lapping Norton 4K/8K to get rid of "Grainyness"

Dear Fellow Razorheads. Have not honed a razor yet, but would like to try a dull Golden Monkey blade on my new stones, as it is not shave ready, I don't have any dull vintage blades and a Cromium Oxide Diamond slurry felt pad and a Big Daddy strop have not helped. Also, I noticed that one of the honemeisters recommends using a lapping stone on the Norton 4K/8k to get rid of the stones "grainyness"and am wondering if this is mandatory. FWIW, I have a Diamond D8C lapping stone, a Norton 220/1K, 4K/8K stone set, a Naniwa 12K superstone, a Big Daddy Strop, a .5 K Diamond Slurry felt pad, a Cromium Oxide Balsa Pad, a Bridle/Latigo leather paddle and a quality strop that will have the leather side covered with Chromium Oxide. I reaize that these Golden Monkeys are not the best, but supposedly can take an hone and be used. I just bought it as a practice blade to "hone" my sharpening skills;) FWIW, I have gotten a decent stropping technique down and have been maintaining the edge on my vintage Hamburg Circle and later production Cowboy brand Solingen blade. Lastly, I have not presoaked my Nortons but understand that a 15 minute pre soak is adequate. Any assistance greatly appreciated-Gearhead

Your Norton should be lapped before use. Any granularity on the 4k side needs to be removed. It's unlikely that the 8k side will need anything beyond simple flattening and edge rounding. The DMT you have will work very well as a lappng plate.

As I am sure you have read, some Nortons take a ton of preparatory lapping (up to about an eighth of an inch taken off the 4k). Mine was like that, but some members report that theirs didn't take much work at all. Generally the porosity/granularity issue can be traced to certain production sources of hones, but not always.

After you finish lapping don't overlook radiusing the long edges of the hone just slightly. This will help prevent damage to your blade.

Dear Bill S-Thanx for the detailed reply! Does a person just lap until the graininess is gone? How do you radius the corners and edges? Just slightly? I guess that the effectiveness of the Norton 4K is compromised until it's smooth?
FWIW, I had to hone the blade 3 cycles through the 4/8K Norton and 12K Naniwa, and then 20 on the felt and 40 on the Big Daddy Bridal leather strop-SUCCESS! Not the smoothest of shaves but it works! Did not radius the Norton stone yet, as I had not read the post yet. Great forum!:)-John

The white side needs to be smooth ti use or it will chip the edge of the razor and leave unsatisfactory results. You should be able to shave off the yellow side easily if you're done. I just did it this morning and I am smooth shaven.

Do not go to the yellow side until you are truly finished honing on the white side, it takes practice to know but a good indicator is if you see black building up quickly on the yellow side then you werent done on the white side and you need to go back.

Good luck!

Hey gearhead-Yeah, I wouldn't touch another razor to ANY hone until its edges are radiused/chamfered. If you want to make sure those hones are truly flat, grid-mark them with a pencil about every inch or so, then do light figure-eights on them with that diamond plate under running water until marks are gone evenly across the hone-corners too!

THEN gently scrape off the edges and corners of each stone by going long-ways and across, with the diamond plate at a roughly 45-degree angle to the top of the stone. you want to sort of round off the edges so that they don't catch a blade and ruin your efforts. Your final result will probably look better than this crappy i-phone pic, but I hope the idea comes across:
Attachment 119126
No, I don't hone on ice-I just needed good light for the photo this morning, so laid the Norton out on the sheet of sleet that fell here yesterday-now I'm awake!

Dear Bill, Disburden and ScoutHiker Dad (and let us NOT forget the originally mentioned honemeister )-THANK YOU!:) Although not perfect, the Golden Monkey shaved well today:).
Already made a copy of these lapping instructions for my straight razor mnt. notebook and getting ready to take the DMT D8C to the Norton 4K/8K:) Am wondering if I could use a 1/16" pane of glass to check for flatness on the Norton.
How do I determine when the pencil grid marks are gone evenly? Do you mean that they should all vanish simultaneously? Otherwise, the flatness of the 4K could be compromised, correct? Do I need to soak the Norton 4K/8K for 15 minutes prior to flattening with the DMT D8C? Please explain.
Again, thanx again for all of the detailed feedback. Great forum!:)

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Originally Posted by gearhead222

Am wondering if I could use a 1/16" pane of glass to check for flatness on the Norton. How do I determine when the pencil grid marks are gone evenly? Do you mean that they should all vanish simultaneously? Otherwise, the flatness of the 4K could be compromised, correct? Do I need to soak the Norton 4K/8K for 15 minutes prior to flattening with the DMT D8C? Please explain.
Again, thanx again for all of the detailed feedback. Great forum!:)

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I don't know that you need to worry about "perfect" flatness. Most of us don't, and no, the pencil marks aren't going to all vanish simultaneously-I usually have to lap a little more in the corners to get them gone. I think most guys only do this grid-lapping once on a hone. And I don't soak before lapping-just turn on a stream of water and rub 'em around on each other, keeping even, light pressure and hitting all areas as equally as you can. Then most of us will just do a few quick cleaning laps before and after use to maintain flatness, keep down swarf, etc. It's pretty easy once you get the hang of it. Some will also do a quick lap between razors-pretty sure I've seen Glenn do this in his sink-honing videos. Just soak the Nortons before use, and don't put them away unless they're perfectly dry, or they'll mildew. Mine dry well in front of a gas-heat register; this may not be as much of an issue if you're out West or something. Happy honing. Try to work your way through the JaNorton thread-lots of good tips there! Pyramidding can also be helpful in the beginning. Up until a few years ago, most guys on here finished on a Norton 8k, and got fine shaves-some still do. Enjoy!

Dear ScoutHikerDad-Again, thank you for some SOLID info! Preventing mildew by not storing the honing stones wet is something I HAVE overlooked and thank God you mentioned it! Mildew BAD! Dry GOOD! One of those basic tips that newbies may not realize until it's too late!:( Is Pyramiding using a progressively finer grade of stone? FWIW, I have received excellent info from Sham, Max, Lynn, Tony , Jarrod and a few others. Between them and this forum, I feel that I have created a solid basis for honing. ALL of the info that I have gleaned from these people and this forum has been copied and put into a folder. Will keep you updated on the lapping.
Almost forgot, but do you have an opinion on using the inexpensive $9-14.00 Nagura stones with the Norton 4K to create an abrasive slurry?
Take care:)-Gearhead

Gearhead here a wonderful thread on honing wit hthe norton 4k/8k full of information http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...on-2012-a.html

If you got advise from those guys then you're all set.
I learned all my 4/8k knowledge from Sham.

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Originally Posted by gearhead222

Dear ScoutHikerDad-Again, thank you for some SOLID info! Preventing mildew by not storing the honing stones wet is something I HAVE overlooked and thank God you mentioned it! Mildew BAD! Dry GOOD! One of those basic tips that newbies may not realize until it's too late!:( Is Pyramiding using a progressively finer grade of stone? FWIW, I have received excellent info from Sham, Max, Lynn, Tony , Jarrod and a few others. Between them and this forum, I feel that I have created a solid basis for honing. ALL of the info that I have gleaned from these people and this forum has been copied and put into a folder. Will keep you updated on the lapping.
Almost forgot, but do you have an opinion on using the inexpensive $9-14.00 Nagura stones with the Norton 4K to create an abrasive slurry?
Take care:)-Gearhead

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Gotta new one! Somehow I accidentally planed the 8K too much on one corner-wish that I had never touched her:( I can tell, as the water is not being dished up in that area:( Tried the pencil mark method three times and also the eyeball, but no luck-Help!-Gearhead

Thanx Martin 103! Got rid of most of the irregularity on the 8K! Newbies, please heed and check constantly and consistently while doing the figure 8's and use light pressure! I discovered the hard way! Appreciate the fact that the Naniwas come pre beveled on the edges:)-Gearhead

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Originally Posted by gearhead222

Almost forgot, but do you have an opinion on using the inexpensive $9-14.00 Nagura stones with the Norton 4K to create an abrasive slurry?

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Don't know-I don't use a slurry on the Nortons-generally just on naturals. It might just confuse the issue? Follow that link Martin sent you, and have fun. aaron

Yah, Disburden, Sham is the man! Learned alot from him!:)
Would not meantion using the Nagura Stone with the Norton 4K, but one of the Gem honing videos shows this method-Gearhead.

i think some of the synthetic naguras are coarse, but hard.. they are used to clean the stone of swarf more so than to raise an abrasive slurry.. if they are hard enough they will raise a slurry from the base stone without shedding abrasive into the slurry.. they are however likely much coarser than 4k, probably coarser than 1k, so if they do release abrasive into the slurry you dont want that.. with your 220/1k you wont need to speed up the 4k with slurry, if you choose to work with a bit of slurry to start each stone and dilute as some do i'd use the dmt8c to raise a bit of slurry and gently lap the stone at the same time.. i think most would recommend learning to hone on your nortons without slurry to start with, and if you decide to experiment with slurry later on go ahead..

you may want to check your dmt8c for flatness, not all are as flat as they should be.. quality control on the dmts are pretty good, but some aren't perfectly flat.. most are flat enough..

Dear Fellow Razorheads-Hope that my Norton 8K is not too far out of plane-seriously conisdering buying a Naniwa 8K, as they come pre beveled and need no soaking. How far off can your honing plane be to affect the honing process? FWIW, I have taken little off of the 8K side-Gearhead

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Originally Posted by gearhead222

Dear Fellow Razorheads-Hope that my Norton 8K is not too far out of plane-seriously conisdering buying a Naniwa 8K, as they come pre beveled and need no soaking. How far off can your honing plane be to affect the honing process? FWIW, I have taken little off of the 8K side-Gearhead

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Mostly flat should be good.

Thanx Lynn-Would not ask, but was going to try to flatten her out some more with the D8C. Don't know how though!:(-Gearhead

Update! Checked out another online tutorial on whetstone lapping and tried the X pattern coupled with the linear fore and aft switching sides method. Also used a pane of glass and a plastic shim-Was not as bad as I thought, but definitely out of plane in a corner:(-Much better now:)-Gearhead