FWIW, I also have the Norton 3 stone set ,a Naniwa 12K, a DMT D8C, a Nagura to creat slurry, a 30X loupe, a Chromium Oxide strop and a bridle leather strop . Thanx for any feedback:)-Gearhead.
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FWIW, I also have the Norton 3 stone set ,a Naniwa 12K, a DMT D8C, a Nagura to creat slurry, a 30X loupe, a Chromium Oxide strop and a bridle leather strop . Thanx for any feedback:)-Gearhead.
You've got some great hones in that line up, might as well add a Swaty.
Thanx Hirlau, but the reason I asked is because I don't want a redundant hone. The Regal, although NOS with the factory label, has not been able to hone anything.I scrubbed it with a hand brush and shaving soap to (hopefully) clean it up and make it abrasive again-Gearhead
You're off to a great start, but my focus would be on a natural finisher, like a thuringian.
Do we know what grit a Swaty is? I've gotten a couple of nice touch-ups from one, but some others needed more attention. I used lather as my lubricant.
When you say the BH you have doesn't hone anything it makes me wonder,,
BH's are not really made to "Hone" a razor they are designed to maintain an already sharp edge with 5-8 laps when the razor needs a nudge..
I realize that some even have a coarse side also but honestly they are a compromise system when used that way..
Here is a Vid with some hints on using them
gssixgun Barber Hone.wmv - YouTube
I don't know if its fair compare barber hones (ie,,,the Regal vs Swaty) , there is a lot of difference in their make up, grit, surface texture. I have several Swaty hones, some are quite different in color, feel (possibly grit). As far as their performance, I really can't give hard facts because I collect them & only use one old, beat up Swaty for my knives & axes. I touch up, sometimes, on the road with a different brand barber hone.
If you have the means to get a Swaty, then do so, they won't last forever.
The original three line swaty is fantastic. Love mine.
CaliforniaCajun, I understand that the Swaty's are around 8-12K. Gsixgin, great video! Seen some of your other videos before and they are great!:) Hirlau-point taken!:)-Gearhead
The only way to find the grit of a given barber hone is to compare it to one of a given grit or two hones of a higher and a lower grit. then see if it adds to the finish or detracts from that finish.Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliforniaCajun
So if a BH improves the edge off a 1ok grit hone but reduced\s the finish of a 12k hone it would be roughly a 11k grit barber hone.
This is being done weekly on another forum. Same rules each time same blades, same check hones, a different barber hone.
~Richard
With a Naniwa 12k, you dont really need a Swaty, i highly doubt that you will find one that beats this one. If you like the edge of the Naniwa you might be disapointed touching it up on a Swaty.Quote:
Originally Posted by gearhead222
I have seen many of these Barber's Hone grit rating and find they can be somewhat missleading since the check hones are naturals, reason being you give a BH a grit rating from a stone that was given an aproximate grit rating, and if its finer you move to another natural with another aproximate grit rating.JMHOQuote:
Originally Posted by Geezer
I use them from time to time. Like Glen said, They're meant for shave ready blades that just need a little bit. Barber's carried them in their pockets, and gave razors a few swipes before shaving a customer, just to be sure he was getting a nice, comfortable shave.
I used a Swaty only for 1 year on a single rotation of about 8 blades. I noticed no significant hone wear, and each blade remained shave ready.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geezer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin103
The Monkey Wrench :)
This is going to get wordy but some thing to keep in mind when "Testing" unknowns
Your fingers pretty much run out at less then 8k, basically after that the fingers are useless, they just don't have the sensitivity.
The scratch pattern analysis although can be a good exercise can also lead to some very wild guesses.. Don't take my word for this, take three or four 8k synthetic hones and perform a scratch pattern test on each of them, and compare them to each other, you will find that the different types of Grit will give different results so will the difference in binder..
This is where some of the wild grit ratings come from with naturals..
Try using teaspoon bottoms or make actual scratch test squares out of Aluminum rather then using a razor this eliminates the "Honing" variable..
Don't forget the depth of the scratches also, make sure you try and take that into account..
Magnification is fun and we all like pics, but again it doesn't tell us much as to grit, as it can't show us how the grit and binder react together..
One statement I have made over and over about grit ratings:
"Numbers only work within a given series of Hones, therefore I know that a Norton 8k is a higher grit then a Norton 4k, I however do not know that a Norton 8k is higher than a Shapton 6k"..
Numbers may not even hold true for a given brand, take a Naniwa Super Stone 10k and compare it directly to a Naniwa Chosera 10k, these are two different types of cutting grit and two different types of binder and give two different results on the scratch tests and the shave test, yet they are both 10k
Now comes the weird part, your tongue is way more sensitive to the grit differences then the fingers, try licking the CLEAN surfaces, keep in mind this is not accurate either it is just fun, and gives one other indicator. It can however be fooled by the differences in Lapping so be careful with giving this very old test to much credence
What I am basically saying is that it really takes a bit of experience to try putting a grit rating on stones and hones, I honestly try never to Grit rate a natural, I find it inaccurate most of the time, and down right mis-leading some of the time..
Now after all that being said, it should be pretty easy to find a line up for your unknowns by working with your known hones. ie: putting your hones into a working order... Be careful of falling into the "Finishing Trap" where you start stacking stones at the end of the honing progression trying to stretch it out, once you get over the 8k level you don't have much room left to "Finish" so chose your weapons wisely..
I origianally wrote the above to answer some questions on how to rate Natural stone but it also pertains to rating Barber's Hones, or any other type of hone, read the part about comparing 3-4 Synthetic 8k hones again and try it for yourself, also the part about using test surfaces and not razors so the "Honing/Shaving" variables are left out..
I give very little credance to any grit rating given to any Hone or Stone other than one given from the maker as it compares to the other Hones in the same series :)
I tend to pretty much take grits, microns and the science stuff for granted. I don't compare the grits on Nortons vs. Shapton Glass vs. Naniwa Choser or Super Stones. I just compare the results and they are pretty similar on each of the similar grits and both the 3K or 5K Naniwas are pretty close to the 4K other stone results.
I played around a while ago however when I was at my peak on developing the one stone method and I really think that most barber hones are in that 8K-10K category. I think the ceramic nature of them in general is what really makes them a nice finishing or maintaining stone. In any case, I have a 7 inch Swaty that I have really enjoyed for many years and have been able to hone hundreds of razors on it using the one stone method after a bevel setting with very nice results. I challenged a friend who was skeptical of doing the one stone method on a barber hone and to his amazement, it worked. Bottom line, is that I think we can over think grits and alot of things in our little world, but at the end of the day, an open mind and some patience can come up with a lot of things that will work. Keep in mind that will work is not the same as the consistency and reliability that some stones and methods provide, but will work can be a lot of fun.
Dear Fellow Members-Just passed on a Swaty that went for $43.00, as it had some chips on the edges-chips bad, no? Dear Martin, GSix and Lynn, thank you again for all of your input. Martin, are you inferring that my Naniwa 12K could do as good touch up on a razor as a Swaty? I also have a small 1" x 3" Nagura stone, that I have yet to use. Have seen it used with the 4K/8K hone video-Gearhead.
Most definately! Probably better then a swaty, 10 to 20 light strokes should bring back a really nice edge.Quote:
Originally Posted by gearhead222
Just flatten the Naniwa 12k a bit between razors. Don't soak it. They tend to swell. Just put water on it and keep it pooled for 15 mins before use. No "grids" Flatten/clean it under water with something fine before each razor (after initial flattening). I use an extremely worn out DMT. 20/20 before every razor under running water. Half lightly. The media is suspended in these things and as using the substrate up it is like a million little spikes. Flatten often, finely, and completely! Great touch-up!Quote:
Originally Posted by gearhead222
Wonderful finisher!
Thanx again guys! Martin103, I see the Naniwa in a new light! Sharptonn, what do you mean by "20/20 before every razor under running water"? No, I don't soak the Naniwa before using-just a light spray. Am wondering if I can use the Nagura with a 4K or 8K Norton-Gearhead
I use 20 strokes under running water , turn it the other direction, and 20 more light strokes. Seems to be sufficient on the worn DMT. I would hesitate to use a new 325 dmt on it, too rough of a surface. The worn-out one seems just perfect!
I touched up the razors in my rotation with 30 laps on a 16K Shapton, and I wondered if a Swaty would have done equally as well. The Swaty did terrific with a Boker Red Injun I have. I'm still in that "What am I going to do" stage when it comes to honing, basically because I wonder if I do it too much. This is probably because in the early days it seemed like nothing I did was good enough or the right combination. Neverthless, I do get the job done these days so I must be doing something right. I tape the spine on my razors so I don't worry about hone wear.
Dear SHarptonn, CallyCajun and fellow razorhead. Won the Swaty for $17.00 buy it now plus $7.00 S/H! Woot! Now if I could just find a container for it!;) Thanx again-Great forum!-Gearhead
Sweet deal! One thing about a Swaty! It's Maintenence Free! :D
Am wondering now how to integrate it into my razor mnt. schedule-Gearhead222
If you are looking to carry it alone, just 1 hone, you can get one of these Pelican cases for it. Just add a little foam padding inside for a cushion. Dive shops, outdoor shops etc.....Quote:
Originally Posted by gearhead222
Pelican is a very dependable, tough case.
Pelican MicroCases from Pelican-Case.com
Attachment 122147
Very nice, but I'm looking for something that will hold it while I use it? Perhaps one of those metal stone holding clamps?Thanx again:)-Gearhead
Perhaps a hand ?? :shrug: :D
Didn't mean to sound smart, just that the Swaty will probably be used for touch ups, thus kept in the shave den where you can easily get it going by spreading a little lather on it & stroking the blade 5 or 6 times, then grab the strop & your back into your shave before the lather on your face gets too cold.
Yep! those things were made to be used in the palm. The universal size was accepted at some point, and "barber's hones" were born!
Would not ask, but have seen some nice (homemade?) wooden cases for the Swaty's-guess that I may have to try to make one, that will leave half of the stone face exposed. Was wondering earlier if anybody made them aftermarket back in the day-Gearhead
That's funny: I was thinking the same but opposite. You've got some great hones there; what do you need a Swaty for? :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Hirlau
I bought one, and found it really doesn't have a place that my others don't do better. Maybe for the one-hone solution 60 years ago it was OK, but it seemed to me like a does-nothing-well solution.
In my world of barber hones, it has nothing to do with need.Quote:
Originally Posted by mdarnton
I want one, two or maybe three , as I like to collect them.
Yes, there are better hones out there for certain applications.
Last, but not least, barber hones are icons of wet shaving going back generations. We save/restore straight razors to keep the tradition alive; barber hones deserve a place in our shave dens also. :shrug:
For what it cost me ($24.00 total), it's a cool little collectible, that may be very handy:)-Gearhead
You may need less passes to get better results. The genuine three line swaty is about 12k level...the rip off ones that say"three line" on them are around 6k level.Quote:
Originally Posted by mdarnton
I get excellent shaves from mine. Id be happy with only owning it as a hone, and I have tried over a hundred hones and modern synthetic systems.
Heavy stropping helps as well since the stone cuts aggressively.
Thanx Disburden! Wondering if I can use my $14.00 Nagura with any stone? Have seen it used with a Norton 4K. Great forum!:)-Gearhead
