Question for Shapton 30K users

I know this question has been asked in the past, but it has been a while and this is in hopes there are more Shapton 30K users out there now.

I currently use the Shapton 16K as a finisher, followed up by 5-10 strokes on chrom-ox. I can shave fairly comfortably off the 16K, but prefer the extra smoothness of finishing w/chrom-ox.

My question for you 30K users is this: do you find the 30k provides a smooth edge without wanting to go to the chrom-ox, or do you still go to some type of paste afterwards?

Thanks in advance,

JC

I generally use the 30K in my progression, have never used pastes and have no problems with the resulting edges in terms of either smoothness nor sharpness. You are stropping afterwards, right?

Definitely.

About 75 laps on SRD webbing and 150 on Latigo or English Briddle Leather. The edges are shave ready coming off the 16K (after stropping of course). I just like the extra smoothness from the chrom-ox. Just wondered if the 30k, since it is basically close in grit level to the chrom-ox produces similarly smooth edges compared to the chrom-ox?

I'd suggest trying 40 or 50 on the fabric and 50 on the leather. See if that doesn't improve the shave off the 16k. Worse that can happen is it doesn't but I bet it will.

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Originally Posted by jc50

Definitely.

About 75 laps on SRD webbing and 150 on Latigo or English Briddle Leather. The edges are shave ready coming off the 16K (after stropping of course). I just like the extra smoothness from the chrom-ox. Just wondered if the 30k, since it is basically close in grit level to the chrom-ox produces similarly smooth edges compared to the chrom-ox?

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For me, no. I use the CrO after the 16k and prefer that edge to the 30k. 30k is fun to have and completes a set, but it doesn't provide $360.00 of extra edge or comfort. Still, I'm glad I have it!! :shrug:

Howard :)

Thanks for the replies gentleman.

Just trying to decide if I want to pull the trigger on the 30K stone or not. :D

If you have to think about it the answer is "NO" it is a nice stone to have but not needed nor is that silly paste! if a 8k, 10k, 12k or 16k is not fine enough for you the only obvious choice is the "500K AIR HONE"(patent pending) open your razor hold the edge parallel to the floor, twirl around feverishly for 1 hour, strop, shave and repeat until edge is perfect. the air friction will abrade the edge so it is ready to shave. please now remit a mere $250US to my paypal account. thank you, no refunds, void where prohibited, use at own risk to self others and your razor. NOT to be used for the other purpose. :)

enjoy,
jim

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Originally Posted by jc50

Thanks for the replies gentleman.

Just trying to decide if I want to pull the trigger on the 30K stone or not. :D

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The 30K is not really necessary, nor is the 16K really although I like them both. I get wonderful shaves off the 12K Naniwa SS as well. With the money you save on the 30K, you can pick up a pretty nice razor, in fact a VERY nice razor.

It's rarely about necessity, but more often about preference or desire to try something different. I'm content shaving off an 8k. We all could have stopped with just 1 brush, 1 razor, 1 finisher, etc, but who does that? That's just crazy talk! :beer1:

Regards,

JC

If I'm not mistaken the fine pastes are a finer grit than 30k, so in theory you will not gain anything by using the Shapton other than the satisfaction of using a stone rather than a pasted strop. JMHO.

I wouldn't spend my money on it. But, it's not my money we're talking about. :)

16 edge should get very nicley refined by diamond spray or CrO on felt.
But if you really want to go higher on a synthetic stone, consider Suehiro Gokumyo it gives great edge, IMO much better than 30k GS, and very much on par with Shapton Pro 30k which is a lot more expensive.

I would suggest a natural stone after the 16k Shapton rather than another synthetic.

I find synthetic stones leave a slightly harsher edge than naturals (which is fine if that's what you prefer) but for me that true velvet squeegee effect is best achieved with a natural finisher, no paste and then stropping.

For much less than the price of the 30k you could get a Thuringian or such like :)

JMHO of course.

Before you "pull the trigger", contact me via PM, we will swap phone numbers and I can really talk you about it. Since you have the GS's up to 16K, there really is no "need" for anything else, period. You may feel the 30K is necessary...I reply with a quote from one of my favorite movies: What is "necessary"? The Last Samurai

For the facts: Few, I repeat: FEW razors can truly handle the 30K. It takes a hard steeled razor to be able to handle the 3-5 strokes on the 30K. They will leave one wicked sharp, but you have to really like an edge like that...

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Originally Posted by shooter74743

For the facts: Few, I repeat: FEW razors can truly handle the 30K. It takes a hard steeled razor to be able to handle the 3-5 strokes on the 30K. They will leave one wicked sharp, but you have to really like an edge like that...

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Double that: I agree, I have stuck with the 3-2-1 or 3-2-2 finish on the 30k but I use it on very few razors.. Myself I LOVE the extreme hollow grind NY razors and they are the ones that IMHO really react the best to the Shapton 30k..

If you are a fan or the American and some of the really fine Solingen steels then perhaps the 30k is for you, but honestly that is the only time it comes out to play in my house..


Take all that with a grain of salt, because it is all just personal opinion,

I had HAD for a time and amongst the hones I picked up was a 30k Shapton pro. I got it from a member in Japan new in the box and cheaper than a 30k glass. Now I mentioned that it was when I had hone acquisition disorder as a warning.

I hardly used it at all because I had too many of the various hones to really get to know any of them well. The few times I did use it the results seemed to be real good, but one reason I didn't use it much was that I was happy with the edge off a 15k shapton pro or a naniwa 12k superstone. I do remember one ATS-34 blade that I got to a level of sharpness of a Feather DE with final finishing on the 30k. Got the nick to prove it. :p

All I'm getting at is more stones can give that 'fix' that some of us with ADs are looking for, but if they are just taking up drawer space getting to know the ones we have and maximizing their potential is a better bet. Once that is achieved going after higher grit finishers , whether natural or synthetic is appropriate ..... IMHO.

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

... All I'm getting at is more stones can give that 'fix' that some of us with ADs are looking for, but if they are just taking up drawer space getting to know the ones we have and maximizing their potential is a better bet. Once that is achieved going after higher grit finishers , whether natural or synthetic is appropriate ..... IMHO.

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This is exactly what I've been doing for a while. My 30k GS sits in a drawer gathering dust with my other finishers, while I've been getting everything I can out of honing with nothing but a Belgian blue for the last several months. Funny thing is, I couldn't tell you how my technique has improved to save my life, but the edges I can coax out of that blue get better and better!

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

All I'm getting at is more stones can give that 'fix' that some of us with ADs are looking for, but if they are just taking up drawer space getting to know the ones we have and maximizing their potential is a better bet. Once that is achieved going after higher grit finishers , whether natural or synthetic is appropriate ..... IMHO.

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Consider me officially talked out of the 30K GS.. - and I couldn't agree more with you about getting the most out of what you already have.

I own and have solely used the following hones for the last 6 months or so: a Norton 220/1K combo (use the 1K for bevel setting), a Norton 4/8K combo, the Shapton 16K GS, and a DMT325 for lapping and repairs. I waited till I had 10 months in shaving exclusively with a straight before I even purchased hones, and have been honing for around 6 months. After reading and watching all the videos from the JANorton thread, I began killing edges on my current rotation (8 straights) and honing solely on the 4/8k until I could comfortably shave solely off of the 8k and reliably repeat those edges (Thanks especially to Lynn and gssixgun for your videos).

I love the edges off the 16k, but like someone said above, feel they are a little harsh coming straight off the stone and prefer(but don't need) a few strokes on chrome-ox to mellow/smooth them out. I was curious to see what experienced honers opinions of the 30K GS stone were and have my answer now. I definitely don't NEED another stone but, I'm completely blaming the start of my HAD on another unnamed member....;)

I WOULD have been completely content (yeah right) with what I have, but a couple months ago I bought a razor off another member that he honed on a JNAT and experienced that squeegee smooth edge straight from a stone with no pastes. Definitely in the market for a different finisher and am leaning towards a natural stone now.....Now to choose.. definitely going to need to do quite a bit more research.

Again, thanks for all the advice and responses gentlemen. Much appreciated.

JC

All I've got now is a chosera 1k for bevel setting, love it, a norton single grit 4k and 8k and assorted coticules and eschers. I mostly finish on an escher yellow/green. Once in awhile a coticule for the sake of variety. Truth be told, I could get along just fine with my 1k, 4&8k and never go to anything else. The finisher is just icing on the cake but it is pleasurable icing.

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

All I've got now is a chosera 1k for bevel setting, love it, a norton single grit 4k and 8k and assorted coticules and eschers.

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I guess you'll have to change your screen name to JimmyoverHAD :rofl2:

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Originally Posted by Ryan82

I guess you'll have to change your screen name to JimmyoverHAD :rofl2:

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No Ryan, it is half way true that I am over HAD but my name is Jimmy H. The AD is for acquisition disorders because I've had all of 'em. :boohoo:

Honestly if you are going to finish on paste you can go from 8k to paste and never need the high end stones or naturals. If I knew that a few years ago I couldve saved a few grand on stones!

So if you use paste...the edge will always be the edge from the paste.
I never used the 30,000 but I owned the 16,000 and thought it was okay. They're probably best as a full system.

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Originally Posted by Disburden

So if you use paste...the edge will always be the edge from the paste.

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Hmmmmm.. Not from the Blind Draw shave tests that I have had the opportunity to do using 7 day sets, it sounds logical but that isn't the results that have come up.. I also do believe that it really depends on the actual use of the paste, I have read people doing 50-100 laps on pasted strops, and I think the use of Balsa pasted strops which are very "Effective" might change the outcome much more than Leather or Felt..

Basically I think that was too broad of a paint brush stroke that you used in the statement, not that it isn' true in some cases but I don't think in all

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Originally Posted by Disburden

Honestly if you are going to finish on paste you can go from 8k to paste and never need the high end stones or naturals. If I knew that a few years ago I couldve saved a few grand on stones!

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But think of the fun you'd have missed !! :rofl2:

This is a good thread. Now I know that I will stay with my 16k GS and my naturals, much cheaper this way :)

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Originally Posted by jeness

This is a good thread. Now I know that I will stay with my 16k GS and my naturals, much cheaper this way :)

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Better edges as well. I've played with a few different pastes & sprays, still keep a paddle with .5 micron diamond on leather for touchups, but I will stay with my stones...you guys can have the pastes.

Has anybody tried to go from gs 8k directly to gs 30k, skipping the gs 16k?
Feel free to try and report.

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Originally Posted by Frameback

Has anybody tried to go from gs 8k directly to gs 30k, skipping the gs 16k?
Feel free to try and report.

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Yes, I did.
I own a set of Shapton GS from 500 to 30k save for the 16k.
I did have several Shapton GS 16k in my sharpening rotation but sold them all.
Somehow I never got really comfortable with the 16k. I don't know why to this date.

Now I finish off with the GS 8k or the uber-expensive GS 10k and "jump" directly to the 30k.
Both work very well before the GS 30k. There is not much sense in putting a finisher (ie the 16k) before another finisher (ie the 30k),
if what both need is a very well set and smooth bevel to work with (ie. an 8k)

For the OP all has been said already. The Shapton GS 30k will not improve your edges/shaves, I believe.
The 30k GS is extremely expensive and not easy to use. It will perform only if you are very good at what you do.
If you cannot get smooth an comfortable shaves of the 16k (especially WITHOUT paste!) your problem may be lack of technique.
I would advise you to learn your edges. Sharpen using your usual routine but finish on your 8.000 grit stone. Shave.
Unless you can get a good and smooth shave coming from your 8.000 grit stone there is no sense in going even further.
Remember: Your finishing stones, may it be a 16k, 30k or any natural will improve edges that already are good. Nothing else

I suspected this. Excellent!
Ill give it a try aswell.
Ill try 1,4,8 30K gs shapton and jump over 16k
I have felt that its a bit of 16k or 30k, not 16k and.30k