Chosera or Naniwa for Bevel Setting?

I have been using my old King Water stones for honing my razors. I have grits ranging from 800-8000. I also have a couple of natural water stones. They are stones I use for woodworking. I am going to buy a set specifically for sharpening my straights. I thought I'd buy the 'Naniwa Value Pack' containing 5000, 8000, and 12,000 stones from SRD for a nice set. Ok so far?
But I also need a stone for bevel setting. So should I get the Chosera 1000 grit stone for $85.95, or can I save $50 or so and get a Naniwa 1000 grit stone for $32.99? Would the more expensive Chosera be something better suited for a professional who hones a large number of razors, or would it be better for me as well? And that much better to justify the additional cash? It's going to be a one-time purchase, so if you all think the Chosera is something I need, I'll 'bite the bullet' and get it.
Any suggestions or advice would be very much appreciated.

Thanks,

Kenny

Honestly,,, No you don't need it, but it really is that good :)

The reason I bought the more expensive stone is because a friend in the forum told me he was so sure I'd love it, that if he was wrong, HE'D by it from me. So, I bought it. And I'm very glad I did. Anyhow, an idea I'm working myself around to is this: Buy the best as often as you can afford it. I say spend the larger sum in this case. I've never used the less expensive one you mention though.

The Naniwa Super Stone 1K is fine for bevels. It has a softer feel than the Chosera, but both have great feedback and both produce very similar results. I like the harder feeling stone for the bevel setting myself, but then prefer the resin or softer feeling Super Stones from there up to the 12K.

You really can't make a bad decision here.

Thanks for the advice fellas. Okay, it looks like it's the Chosera for me. I'm thinking that the extra $50 will soon be forgotten, but I'll have the great stone forever, and be happy that I got it. With the less expensive Naniwa, I'll always wonder if I shouldn't have gotten the more expensive one, and will want to kick myself for not having gone ahead and getting it.
Thanks for helping me make up my mind. I just needed the extra push.
Lynn, this coming up Friday I'm still sending you my razor with the uneven bevels on either side. That way, ,when it needs honing again, and I have my stones, you'll have me started on the right foot.

Thanks to All,

Kenny

Man, u guys are making me want to order myself a Chosera too now, maybe just the 1k, It's okay to have 2 bevel setters right? I have more than 1 finisher afterall

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Originally Posted by saitou

Man, u guys are making me want to order myself a Chosera too now, maybe just the 1k, It's okay to have 2 bevel setters right? I have more than 1 finisher afterall

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Do you REALLY want me to answer that ???? Says the man that owns just about every 1k made :p I heard some guy on here are always saying that 90% of honing is in the bevel set so I found it only logical that I should own about 90% of the types of bevel setters made :rofl2:

+1 to the Chosera 1k. I also had other bevel setters when I bought mine. There is this thing called the SRP classifieds ....... :shrug:

NANIWA ( ナニワ研磨工業株式会社 / NANIWA ABRASIVE MFG. CO.,LTD.) is the name of manufacturer of both NANIWA Super Stones and NANIWA Chosera lines.
So it is a bad idea to compare NANIWA with Chosera.

Chosera stones are harder, usually faster and more versatile than Super Stones.
Super Stones are designed with intention to mimic some features of jnats that are essential for sharpening of traditional japanese hard carbon steels like Aogami, Shirogami and Kigami.
Super Stones give perfect result for such a steels. But they are unpredictable when applied to stainless steel.

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Originally Posted by Nikolay

Super Stones give perfect result for such a steels. But they are unpredictable when applied to stainless steel.

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What? Do yours sometimes put steel back onto stainless razors instead of taking it off?

Seriously, though, what do you mean by that comment? Because I have found the Naniwa SS line to be super predictable with every razor I have ever put on them.

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Originally Posted by Nikolay

is the name of manufacturer of both NANIWA Super Stones and NANIWA Chosera lines.
So it is a bad idea to compare NANIWA with Chosera.

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Why is that a bad idea ???

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Originally Posted by Nikolay

But they are unpredictable when applied to stainless steel.

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I am going to have to disagree there too

No idea about the stainless thing, but the first part of Nikolay's comment was to just be more precise with the names. Asking what the difference is between a Naniwa and a Chosera is easier to decipher than the difference between a Ford and a Mustang, but is the same sort of question.

But amazingly we still all knew exactly what the OP meant, :hmmm: so let's hope that wasn't actually what Nikolay meant...

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

But amazingly we still all knew exactly what the OP meant, :hmmm: so let's hope that wasn't actually what Nikolay meant...

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The fact that frequent readers and experienced users are aware that Naniwa only has two popular product lines in this community do not render the point invalid. Your "we all" may in fact exclude the OP and many others who are not as well-versed in the market. To suggest that it doesn't matter because you and some others understood is quite contrary to the notion of wanting to be helpful.

Naniwa's are Naniwa's, Chosera's are Chosera, If I say Toyota and Lexus does anybody get confused? I doubt it.
I'm pretty sure there has been no confusion with regards to this issue ever and if there was it was cleared up pretty easily, I for one will continue to refer to my Naniwa SS super stones as my "Naniwa's" and WHEN (not if =P) I get my new Naniwa Chosera Super Ceramics SS 1000 bevel setter I will refer to it as my Chosera. Because that is much simpler and easier to understand for my primitive brain.

In fact the chosera's are sometimes referred to as "super ceramics" and also have SS in the model number. So... If it aint broken.. don't mess wit it! lol

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Originally Posted by Tierdaen

The fact that frequent readers and experienced users are aware that Naniwa only has two popular product lines in this community do not render the point invalid. Your "we all" may in fact exclude the OP and many others who are not as well-versed in the market. To suggest that it doesn't matter because you and some others understood is quite contrary to the notion of wanting to be helpful.

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BTW NANIWA produce much more than just these two lines, there are also NANIWA DIAMOND stones, woodworking stones, economy and pro lines for kitchen knives and so on.

As for the phrase about stainless steel it needs to be explained.
The main idea is that softer and viscous stainless steel provoke two bad things:
1) too much slurry that can make the edge rounding instead of sharpening ( when excessive pressure on bevel setting )
2) sometimes NANIWA SS are clogging too fast with stainless and you need to dress the surface after each some ten strokes or so

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Originally Posted by Tierdaen

The fact that frequent readers and experienced users are aware that Naniwa only has two popular product lines in this community do not render the point invalid. Your "we all" may in fact exclude the OP and many others who are not as well-versed in the market. To suggest that it doesn't matter because you and some others understood is quite contrary to the notion of wanting to be helpful.

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Actually the "We all" simply referred to the context of the thread, where every person here clarified it.. Reading the entire thread might be helpful

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Originally Posted by Nikolay

BTW NANIWA produce much more than just these two lines, there are also NANIWA DIAMOND stones, woodworking stones, economy lines for kitchen knives and so on.

[B]Yes we know...[/B]

As for the phrase about stainless steel it needs to be explained.
The main idea is that softer and viscous stainless steel provoke two bad things:
1) too much slurry that can make the edge rounding instead of sharpening ( when excessive pressure on bevel setting )
2) sometimes NANIWA SS are clogging too fast with stainless and you need to dress the surface after each some ten strokes or so

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Simply not true, when using the hones,, I think perhaps you are getting info from non Straight Razor sources and confusing things
Making broad sweeping statements like that are what is actually not a good idea..
What you are saying goes in direct contradiction to what I have found using the Naniwa SS's to hone SS razors..


I would love to know where you came up with this info ????

Speaking of stainless steel razors in general I've not found those I've encountered to be any more unpredictable than high carbon razors I've honed. A lot more of the latter than the former. OTOH, custom stainless razors I've encountered, three to be exact, have been tougher to get up to speed.

The customs were an ATS-34 and two S30V blades. Not surprising since their reputation for being tough, abrasion resistant steels, precedes them. Once "there" they were great. I've read that most of the vintage stainless factory blades, if not all, were fashioned from 440C steel. If that is true I would have to assume that heat treating and tempering are paramount. I say that because I've had 440C pocket knives that weren't that good, while my vintage stainless razors have been first rate.

I've yet to try a Chosera. I've heard that the binder on those is magnesia while I know the superstones have a polymer binder. I imagine the abrasive and the distribution of same in the binder are different. Anyway, the 12k superstone as well as the 1k, 3k, 5k, 8k are great stones IME.

I can't imagine an experienced honer not getting stellar results with any of them. OTOH, I reserve 'back honing' for my strops. I learned to hone edge leading on stones, the way it has been done for hundreds, if not thousands, of years. So far so good. :beer2:

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Originally Posted by Nikolay

BTW NANIWA produce much more than just these two lines, there are also NANIWA DIAMOND stones, woodworking stones, economy and pro lines for kitchen knives and so on.

As for the phrase about stainless steel it needs to be explained.
The main idea is that softer and viscous stainless steel provoke two bad things:
1) too much slurry that can make the edge rounding instead of sharpening ( when excessive pressure on bevel setting )
2) sometimes NANIWA SS are clogging too fast with stainless and you need to dress the surface after each some ten strokes or so

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Not to be rude, but this is a straight razor forum, and since we talk only about straight razors, the confusion doesn't exist for us and the issues you cite don't either. It's awesome when members can bring outside info and experience to the forum, but, in this case, I would say it is your approach, not our naming system, that is bringing undue confusion to a thread about setting bevels on straight razors.

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Originally Posted by holli4pirating

Not to be rude, but this is a straight razor forum, and since we talk only about straight razors, the confusion doesn't exist for us and the issues you cite don't either. It's awesome when members can bring outside info and experience to the forum, but, in this case, I would say it is your approach, not our naming system, that is bringing undue confusion to a thread about setting bevels on straight razors.

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Thanks for correction!

My sharpening experience is not limited to straight razors only. I sharpen all my kitchen knives, folders, chisels, planes, scissors and so on.
Because of such a broad experience my vision and appraisal of stones differ from traditional of this place.

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I've yet to try a Chosera. I've heard that the binder on those is magnesia while I know the superstones have a polymer binder. I imagine the abrasive and the distribution of same in the binder are different.

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Yes. Chosera are based on magnesia bond and have higher concentration of abrasive grain than SS.
So they are faster, but there are some downsides of such a bond.
Chosera stones can produce a cracks on the surface when you try to dry them too quickly.

It has already been discussed on another thread: http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...can-crack.html

The relative humidity in Japan is high and very stable ( 65-75% ) so there is no such problem with stones if you are living there.
But in other regions the humidity is not as high as in Japan. In urban environment with district heating in winter the relative humidity in quarters could drop down to 10% or even less. In such a conditions special handling is needed to prevent the Chosera stones from cracking.
For example one can use humidors.