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Hello, I get this stone is a Okudo Karasu, hard stone, what is the best way to get the most of this stone. I try it with slurry , after 12K , the edge is the same, with water it improve a 12k, shaving is better, but no more HHT. Please advise on the best method.
How do you make your slurry?
I have a piece of translucent ark, hardest stone know to me.
Ok, check that you don't scratch up bigger particles but instead rub it gently to get a fine even slurry.Quote:
Originally Posted by livio
Hard to know how your stone is without trying it, I'll put on some coffee if you got time to bring it over!
Thank you, I would love some coffee, and I would love to visit Sweden, the stone is lapped up to 2k, and the ark don't scratch the surface. I will use it more without slurry,
to get an iddea what the stone can do. Even without slurry , in 2 min, the water became darker, maybe is the karasu strata. Why I can get HHT if the edge is better?
I've noticed the "HHT" phenomenon too off one or two of my Jnats (except for me it is not HHT, it is the arm hair waft). Straight off the stone, nothing. But after a very good stropping I do get good hair tests. I always thought it had something to do with the particles floating around in the water and kind of banging into the edge - I think they call it slurry dulling or something. But the particles are small and as I said a good stropping seems to remove any issue. What happens to yours after you strop it?
If you can afford it I would suggest that a good quality diamond plate in the 1K region is an excellent way to both make slurry on a hard Jnat and keep it lapped and clean. I use an Atoma 1.2K diamond plate for this purpose on all my harder Jnats. Yes, they cost more initially but they last a very long time and are of excellent quality for the money.
Good luck.
James.
Thank you James, I have a DMT 1200, but it won't scratch the surface? The best way is to have a piece of the own stone? Maybe I will make it a rectangle, and I can hace a slurry from the stone.After stropping still no HHT, but again shaving is very smooth, even ATG.
I cannot speak for the DMT, but my Atoma 1.2K leaves my stone nice and smooth with no noticeable scratches. If there are any they certainly do not impact on the edge imparted on my razors. This is the second Atoma I have used for this purpose and both have behaved identically in this respect. And although 2 is not a huge sample, it makes me feel that it is not a fluke with these diamond plates.
James.
I lapped on DMT 1200 and on wet and dry sandpaper 2K, there are no visible scratches.
I will buy a Atoma when my DMT is getting older.
I would go with a tomo nagura but that is becourse it's traditional.
Diamond plates work fine to but will usually give you a coarser slurry.
The DMT 1200 will be fine for making a little slurry, what it won't like is heavy work like flatten your stone.
The diamonds are so small that the slurry will start to eat the substrate holding them to the plate.
It won't really scratch your stone at all and as soon you start to hone on it the surface will be even finer.
A good tomo nagura will give you a finer slurry to start with, some times good for a quick touch up or to end the nagura progression.
The DMT won't make it as fine but it will break down as you hone.
A little sodium carbonate in the water will make it more slippery and give you some rust protection while honing, carbon steel can rust fast!
How come you got a karasu?
Thank you very much for your help. I got the stone on Ebay, from 330 Mate, I know is a gamble with this seller, but I was thinking at 70$ can't go wrong. I just want to make the stone as rectangle as posible. It is 7x 2 1/2, almost ideal for razors.Is Karasu a good stone?
I saw that Thuringian you won on Ebay the other day too...How's that working out for you? It looked like a nice stone, you'll probably enjoy the edges off the Thruy.
Jnat's can be finiky. Atoma is good in lieu of Tomo Nagura.
I guess HAD has kicked in.....
The Karasu is more of a collectors thing, if it's good or not only you can tell.
I've tried a few of 330 mates stones now and can't find anything wrong with them, would like to try one of the stones that has been described as crap and see.
I've found the same as Jimbo said about some jnats can give you an edge that won't be HHT but strop it and see, the shave is the only certain test.
You can do some tests on the stone, like use water only and an old blade to see if the stone will scratch or self slurry.
When it comes to tomo nagura I and others have found that exactly the same stone is not always good to use.
The only way to know what works is trial and error.
Good luck!
HAD and RAD are terrible disease, I get both.
How many passes you do on a Jnat. I know is not an easy answer, but on a shave ready 12K I go 50 laps on water on my Hohenzollern , just to get where I like the edge.
Well, how long is a string?Quote:
Originally Posted by livio
I never count strokes so I don't know.
It depends on so much, the stone, the steel, your style of honing and how you want the edge.
Get some razors and practice, it takes some time to learn a new jnat.
Try different ways to hone, the Japanese way is with more weight on the hone than the feather light strokes some do on the Eschers.
Thank you, I will hone couple razors, and let you know.
Interesting to see this thread as I just bought an Okudo Karasu from 330mate. Mine looks very similar to yours, despite it being misshapen...I have not had a chance to use the stone as of yet, but it seems to be a nice stone...
Attachment 128220
Nice stone, I think was from same strata. How big is yours? I consider cutting mine and make it more like a coticule 7x2
Thank you, where I can buy a Atoma card?
Mine is about 55mm wide (at the widest) by 170mm long, it's a decent size, kinds reminds me of my coticule bouts! It seems to be a great little stone, I was easily able to raise a slurry using a well-worn DMT1200 credit card...Have not had a chance to hone on it yet, though as I literally JUST got it...Quote:
Originally Posted by livio
Same here I just get it today.
I got mine at Chef's knives to go. He used to make them up. You might have to contact him on the site.
Thank you, is a big difference btw Atoma 1200 and DMT 1200?
they are made differentlyQuote:
Originally Posted by livio
I wouldn't use the DMT 1200 on any stone especially on a hard fast stone. It will wear out quickly.Quote:
Originally Posted by livio
I also think the possibility of mixing particles from the ark with the Jnat may not give you a true picture of its potential.
Here's a few things to experiment with: After 12 k I use nothing coarser than tenjyo nagura & then only a thin slurry. Mejiro or koma would be finer alternatives than tenjyo. A few laps on water to finish could be ideal. I don't bother with tomo but sometimes use my Atoma 1200 for an invisible slurry , 6-10 circles on the Jnat.
Yes, that's basically what I do too Oz. With the Atoma I mean - a very weak slurry using less than 10 circles. Then I do as many laps as it takes to dry out so I end up with a couple of dry laps. Sometimes when I get bored I blow on the stone to evaporate things a bit quicker.
James.
O n water only, it improve the 12k edge , I will test it more just with water.
All woads lead to Wome. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo
I find that the Atoma creates less suction than the DMT. Also after 5 years of using the Atoma I have never had a diamond fall out during any normal slurry raising actions. The action needed to raise a light slurry puts very little pressure of the individual diamonds as the burden is distributed evenly over the whole diamond plate surface.Quote:
Originally Posted by livio
If I am not mistaken I believe that Onimaur55 is suggesting that using a DMT to flatten or raise a slurry on a very hard stone will wear out the DMT, not wear out the stone.
The idea that using a diamond plate to raise a light slurry will quickly wear out a stone, well I know that over time it would, yes. I have flattened literally 100s of stones with the Atoma 400 plate, and I am a stronger man for it, and I am using as fresh a plate as I have, bearing down with my full body weight under running water. It is such a chore that I have to take breaks and even walk away from it for a few minutes. It takes so much time and effort to just lap out a 0.05mm divot, I cannot see myself actually wearing out a 20mm thick hard awasedo razor hone in a lifetime of normal slurry raising. Softer stones, yes, they do wear out faster and under an Atoma you can get that divot out in maybe 2/3rds the time, but really hard stones like razor users have, it would be a slow process to deminish a stone.
About your HHT tests. After you strop, try your HHT and then go back to the stone and do a series of lighter pressure strokes like weight of the razor ones, maybe 10 or 15 per side and then strop again. This second honing after the initial stropping can make a big difference.
I have found (and I always count strokes) that if you add more honing strokes on one side of the blade than the other the foil edge can favor one side of the blade. And if you are not light handed towards the end of the honing session you can end with that edge laying over and favoring one side or the other. Stropping should remove the foil and that is why the HHT can improve, but going back for a few more strokes after the first strop can help to make sure that the false edge is gone.
Alx
Thank you very much, so much to learn for a such a small stone. But I think it won't be the first Jnat. That way I love straight razors, when you say I know everything about sharpening, Coticule thuringians, manmade, here is another brand new experience.
I always strop on my hand between changing stones or nagura, that minimizes the false edge problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by alx
Sometimes I end with swiping my palm over the stone getting some fine slurry on it, let it dry and then strop on it.
I honed 2 razors, one Mogal, hard steel, one Heljestrand MK 42, both 12k Naniwa shave ready,
they both pass HHT from the hone, before stropping, then I make 30 passes on Ozuku,very light ,just water, they both seem to sucked onto the stone, they both pass the HHT,before stropping,and even better after stropping. I will let you know the shaving impression tomorrow.
So , for now I will try it without slurry , just as a regular finishing natural. I will do more passes, less passes, the stone seem to release very light slurry when honing.
Sounds good! I also will post my experiences with my Okudo Karasu as I begin to use it... :)Quote:
Originally Posted by livio
Then it's self slurrying and probably works fine with water only.Quote:
Originally Posted by livio
Just had the last of the coffee but soon will have another pot on, so no hurry!
Even the 140 grit Atoma can be a bit slow on certain stones. I find 40 -80 grit SiC powder on glass speeds things up considerably until the diamond plates can come into play.Quote:
Originally Posted by alx
Thank you all for your suggestions, I try it after a very fast coticule, a deep rock, I raise slurry on coticule and dilute about half way. After I finish on Okudo , 100 laps, is a small stone, the edge is improving considerably over the coticule on water. The shaving is absolutely fantastic, I don't even need 2 passes. For now, this is my favorite finisher, beter than my Hohenzollern. I will post more of my experience, as i will try it with slurry.
