Zulu Grey vs Naniwa SS 12K comparison

I've been using the Naniwa SS 12K for a little over a year now, and I just
received a Zulu Grey stone last week. I decided to compare the two stones,
using 2 identical razors (both of which are Solingen blades from the same
7-day set).

Both razors were in need of a touch-up, but the bevels on both were set by
gssixgun. I think that makes for as fair a comparison as I can muster.
Disclaimer: I have very limited experience with natural stones, so that may
skew the result somewhat.

Both stones were first lapped with a DMT 325 plate, and the honing was done
using water only on both stones.

The first razor was touched-up on the Naniwa 12K. It began to silently pop
my arm hair after about 12 straight laps using "weight of the razor" pressure.
That was followed by 3 X strokes for a final touch. It didn't take long at all.

The second razor took considerably longer, using the Zulu Grey stone,
to achieve the same result: about 100 straight strokes, followed by about
10 light X strokes.

This morning I shaved with both: right side with the Zulu Grey, and left side
with the Naniwa 12K.

The Naniwa edge gave me its usual crisp feel, with no irritation. The Zulu Grey
edge was equally sharp, but a bit "softer": it reminded me of the edge off a
translucent Arkansas stone. Both edges felt smooth, and the shave on both
sides was near BBS after 2 passes. It was difficult to tell the difference.

There you have it: a comparison using a familiar Naniwa 12K vs a first
experience with a Zulu Grey. Obviously, I need more experience with the ZG,
and hopefully I'll be able to improve on an already nice edge.

I think you have given a very accurate assessment. The SS 12K gets you sharp and fairly smooth and if one stops there they will be happy. The Zulu, starting with slurry, will do both but take you to a much higher level of smooth and Will make you deliriously happy.

No expert by any means but I do like the edges off the Zulu grey better than off the Nani 12K for the simple reason that they feel less harsh to me. I guess that matches what the OPs perception is.

Bob

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 1holegrouper

The Zulu, starting with slurry, will do both but take you to a much higher level of smooth and Will make you deliriously happy.

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You were right. I tried using a little bit of slurry on a TI "Z" razor that has always been a tad difficult for me to get a smooth edge.

I tried the "dilute to clear" method that I'd only read about, and it worked like a charm:
it resulted in a truly "hallelujah" shave...super smooth BBS.

Thanks for that! I'll be trying more of that with the Zulu Grey.

Paul

Paul I think you have demonstrated the reason why many of us prefer a step beyond a naniwa 12k even though we can get a great shave off the naniwa 12k. To me it is not a question of one versus the other it is just the simple fact that many of
us find the step beyond 12k to be more rewarding regardless of whether the step beyond is a zulu, a shapton, a jnat or the new popular finisher of the month.
I think the more you work with the zulu the better you are going to appreciate it. Enjoy..

Thanks, Bob. I presume then that you are recommending going from the Nani 12K
to the Zulu? Or is it straight to the Zulu for a touch up?

I'll have to try both routines and see how it goes.

Paul

I certainly haven't found the end of the potential on my Naniwa SS or any other stones I have. In summary, I honed a razor last week up to my Naniwa 12k, used it extensively doing daily 3-pass shaves while on a business trip for the last week then re-finished it this morning using my Zulu Grey, shaved with it and had the same experience as stated above.

In detail: Last weekend before a business trip, I breadknifed my Boker King Cutter and rehoned it using my Norton 1k, Naniwas 3k, 5k, 8k and 12k followed by 7 laps on .5 diamond on felt then linen and leather (I do this all the time with all but one razor for practice). I used Lynn's standard progression with a couple extra strokes here and there to get it to the right level (popping hairs midway off the 8k and better off the 12k). My first 3 shaves (all 3-pass: WTG, XTG x 2 or ATG) were extremely smooth while shaving and very unforgiving of technique because the areas where I didn't pay as much attention and my ATG on my chin were very irritated afterwards using an alum block. Overall, the sharpness of the blade far outran my shaving technique until the fourth day of shaving when I had a completely irritation free shave as judged by my alum block, not the feeling throughout the day. The shaves on days 4, 5, 6, 7 were equally as smooth while shaving and irritation free when using the alum block afterwards. I had been stropping using my new SRD Roo stop daily while on this trip. I was going to touch up my razor this morning with 7 laps on CrO3 on cotton webbing to see what it would do to the irritation and overall feel of the shave; however, after reading this thread, I created a medium-light slurry with my DMT on my Zulu Grey, added a touch of soap to prevent skipping and finished with about 40 laps with finishing pressure, diluted then 20 laps with finishing pressure then diluted to a very light slurry for 20 more laps or so. I did 7 laps on CrO3 on cotton webbing then stropped and shaved with my 3-pass shave this morning. I found the edge didn't cut through the hairs as smoothly on the first pass as it did off the Naniwa 12k, so I had to focus on my technique a little more; however, overall the shave felt smooth, the shave was equally as close and there was absolutely no irritation. To eliminate variables, I used the same pre-shave prep every day, same shaving soap (Castle Forbes Lime) and the same strop (SRD Roo with poly webbing).

Thanks PaulKidd for starting this post...I haven't seen too many documented techniques with the Zulu Grey and was doing my own internal experiment with CrO3 on poly webbing until I read this post.

I would try not going to Crox after the ZG. Technically Crox is higher grit but that's not what this hone is really about. What this hone does well is to create smoothness to an edge that you have already made sharp. (it sharpens too though) Also I would make the last round of laps on the ZG with water only. Then go linen and leather strop or leather strop only.

I agree that there is not yet an established optimal way to use the ZG. Patience with this hone will really reward you. I do see a general consensus though in making sure that any razor you bring to it is ready for it. That is, that you have got the the most out of the last hone. Then starting out with some slurry and eventually finishing with water only. The number of strokes seems to be about 150-200. Sort of like an Arkansas translucent in its cutting speed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 1holegrouper

I agree that there is not yet an established optimal way to use the ZG. Patience with this hone will really reward you. I do see a general consensus though in making sure that any razor you bring to it is ready for it. That is, that you have got the the most out of the last hone. Then starting out with some slurry and eventually finishing with water only. The number of strokes seems to be about 150-200. Sort of like an Arkansas translucent in its cutting speed.

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I agree with the diluting slury. I have tried from 8k to ZG and from Shapton glass 16k to ZG. The 8k to ZG I had good results with a milky slury to water (140-180 strokes) and from the 16k to ZG, water only or very light slury to water only (80-120 strokes). I get more consistency when using the 16k before the ZG.

At this moment I have my Zulu with dry turi slury on it. I have a very light gray turi 5"x1" stick that is softer than the ZG and it slury easily on it. The best edges out of the Zulu yet. Just water and stroke, keep the slury and add water as needed (evaporate). If slury gets thin, I raise some more. Every 3 or 4 razors, I clean and refresh surface with the Atoma 1200, raise turi slury and let dry on counter, then put away in plastic bag, to keep debris from reaching the stone. When needed, water and hone away. Double O

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Double0757

I agree with the diluting slury. I have tried from 8k to ZG and from Shapton glass 16k to ZG. The 8k to ZG I had good results with a milky slury to water (140-180 strokes) and from the 16k to ZG, water only or very light slury to water only (80-120 strokes). I get more consistency when using the 16k before the ZG.

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I've had similar experiences. The 8k stone doesn't buff the edge as smooth as I'll want. Raising a slurry on the Zulu will buff that edge smooth and remove the remaining scratches from the bevel. But in order to get that last level of sharpness, I need to run the edge over plain water. The first fifty strokes across it will usually have slurry. By the time I get above 50 or 60, I'm down to water. From here I'll usually want another 50 to 100 strokes on just the water. I find that a Naniwai 12k doesn't buff as nicely as the Zulu. But it cuts really fast so any attempt to do any excessive buffing on the 12k will end up with a really harsh edge. If there is any trick to using the Naniwai, it seems to be in pushing the edge just to the next level of sharpness and quickly stop before it gets nasty. If I find that a particular razor is not reacting to the Zulu the way others have or getting the sharpness I want, I will give it 5-8 strokes on the Naniwai to finish and that usually gives me the best of both worlds. The final edge off the Zulu can be deceptive. Other edges will pop hairs all over the place but the final Zulu edge doesn't always do that. But in spite of it, the edge may shave exceptionally well. If you're used to the speed of the Naniwai 12K, the Zulu will frustrate you until you find out how many strokes it takes to get where you want to be. I kept stopping short and thinking that the Zulu wasn't doing its work. It was/is my first natural stone and it has been a learning experience.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PaulKidd

Thanks, Bob. I presume then that you are recommending going from the Nani 12K
to the Zulu? Or is it straight to the Zulu for a touch up?

I'll have to try both routines and see how it goes.

Paul

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Paul, if I am going through the honing process sequence I do go the Zulu after the 12k Nani. For just touch a touch up when needed I go straight to the Zulu for a very short time.

i bought my 12k as a step between 8k & Zulu and did about 40 razor finished up to 12k while i waited for my Zulu to arrive ....

the 12k was a sure step from the 8k but i also found it to have that almost to sharp crisp feel , while waiting for the Zulu i picked up a coticule and have went from coming off the Zulu to knocking the crispness down on the coticule to just loving the coticule edge and skipping the 12k & Zulu all together ...

i have been thinking bout hitting the Zulu again cause i haven't played with it enough but when i did i always found the slurry diluted to water was more effective and also a bit smoother then the 12k or Zulu with just water ..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gooser

i bought my 12k as a step between 8k & Zulu and did about 40 razor finished up to 12k while i waited for my Zulu to arrive ....

the 12k was a sure step from the 8k but i also found it to have that almost to sharp crisp feel , while waiting for the Zulu i picked up a coticule and have went from coming off the Zulu to knocking the crispness down on the coticule to just loving the coticule edge and skipping the 12k & Zulu all together ...

i have been thinking bout hitting the Zulu again cause i haven't played with it enough but when i did i always found the slurry diluted to water was more effective and also a bit smoother then the 12k or Zulu with just water ..

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The Zulu often needs a bit of a kick start to start working (not always though) within a reasonable amount of time. If I hone on it with water only I can get the results I want but it might take a lot more strokes then if I start the first set of laps with some slurry. The slurry on the Zulu when its at a very effective consistency is nearly invisible to see. If you build up a very milky slurry on a Zulu (which is not easy and to the extent that it looks like the slurry on a Coticule) you will not be happy with the results and it can take your edge backwards instead of forward.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 1holegrouper

The Zulu often needs a bit of a kick start to start working (not always though) within a reasonable amount of time. If I hone on it with water only I can get the results I want but it might take a lot more strokes then if I start the first set of laps with some slurry. The slurry on the Zulu when its at a very effective consistency is nearly invisible to see. If you build up a very milky slurry on a Zulu (which is not easy and to the extent that it looks like the slurry on a Coticule) you will not be happy with the results and it can take your edge backwards instead of forward.

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My sentiments exactly! I describe the slury as cloudy water. Double O