Unable to bevel the middle of one side

Hi guys,

I picked up a Geneva on ebay to bring into shape with my new Norton combo set (220, 1K, 4K, 8K). The stones are completely lapped (except for one stubborn corner on the 8k).

My problem is that on one side, I cannot seem to get the bevel to touch the hone in the middle. There is clear wear on the heel and toe of the spine and the bevel is much wider at the toe and a little wider at the heel. You can see in these pics:


You will also notice that the other side of the blade is fairly normal. There is a little extra wear on the heel and toe and I might need a little extra pressure in particular places or a rolling X but should be okay.

I tried X strokes and circle strokes on the bad side with 1K and the middle didn't seem to be touched at all. I added a good deal of pressure to the middle and still the same. I moved to the 220 adding pressure to the middle of both the heel and spine and that caused a great deal of extra wear on the TOE and HEEL but NOTING on the middle.

I quit at this point to avoid causing any damage.

Also, this is meant to be a practical shaver, not a showcase item so I don't mind if I need to do something that causes aesthetic problems.

My gut is to continue to grind down the bad side until I can get the middle to touch the stones.

Thoughts?

i would get a narrow hone for razors with that type of problem if i was you. 2-3cm wide. a coticule maybe. the problem can be uneven spinewear/frawn edge or a warped blade. honing a razor with problems like that is easiest on a narrow hone where the spine focus on stabilizing the same area that gets honed at the time.

You can also try add more tape to the spine til you got a even straight taped spine, then use no pressure honing, this will make the tape act like a spine, but with to much pressure its not going to work.

to see if your razor is warped lay it down flat on the stone and press the spine corner and low upsit corner and see if there is any play.

My first guess is that you have a little unevenness in your "away" stroke. I've experienced the same thing and it took practice to fix.

A very even x-stroke should hit the whole blade on your nortons.

Try the magic marker test and play around a bit. See if it's possible to get all the marker off in one or two strokes.

There is a chance that it just needs more work. In which case I would continue to work on both sides.

Michael

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Originally Posted by mjsorkin

My first guess is that you have a little unevenness in your "away" stroke.

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I have had the same thing before too but I'm not convinced that is it. I would believe that if it were the heel or the toe that were gettting missed but it is the center that won't touch, no matter what stroke I use at any pressure.

You've gotten some really good advice I like M's in #3.

I've only been honing for about 3 years but I'm wondering if beside the marker and continuing what happens if you add 1 layer plastic electricians tape just to see if that makes a difference!?!? :shrug:

If you do use the tape be sure to change often especially below 4K!!

I'm not too far from you...come see me & we can fix it & have a honing lesson or three. I'm just north of Paris, TX about 20 miles. Your best way to learn to hone is FTF, period. You won't learn everything on a single visit, but you will learn a LOT in just a few hours on the stones. Nothing like getting a proper foundation to "hone" upon.

Personally, I don't use electrical tape NOW...but when I was learning to hone I would use it all the time. I still keep a roll around for Ebay blades and those that need a bit of edge correction before the actual bevel set. Do yourself and your blades a favor and use tape, no since abusing the blades and wearing them down for no reason.

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Originally Posted by MrMagnus

i would get a narrow hone for razors with that type of problem if i was you. 2-3cm wide. a coticule maybe. the problem can be uneven spinewear/frawn edge or a warped blade. honing a razor with problems like that is easiest on a narrow hone where the spine focus on stabilizing the same area that gets honed at the time.

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Well, I just tapped out my budget on this Norton set. It seems like I would need multiple narrow hones from low to high grit to do it right. I did however, try the sharpie test honing the middle of the razor on one corner of the stone so that the heel and toe could not raise the middle off the stone. That seemed to work. My concern about doing it this way is that I won't get a consistent bevel across the surface of the edge.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MrMagnus

You can also try add more tape to the spine til you got a even straight taped spine, then use no pressure honing, this will make the tape act like a spine, but with to much pressure its not going to work.

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I'll try the electrical tape today. I'm guessing I should put a layer on the middle only since that is the part I can't get to touch the stone. Perhaps add one layer across the entire spine after that help help it gradually transition.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MrMagnus

to see if your razor is warped lay it down flat on the stone and press the spine corner and low upsit corner and see if there is any play.

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One side is fine with no play. The other side has some very minor play if I press really far toward the toe. I'm guessing that it doesn't have play on the other side because the low spot is in the very middle rather than on one side so the heel and toe touch the hone evenly serving as the foundation for the bridged arch across the middle.

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Originally Posted by shooter74743

I'm not too far from you...come see me & we can fix it & have a honing lesson or three. I'm just north of Paris, TX about 20 miles.

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I'd love to come visit you, Shooter. Thank you for the invite. You are about 2 hours away from me and I rarely make it up that way. I'll see if I can find a day when the wife and kids don't need me and I have the car to give you a visit.

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Originally Posted by calamusink

I'll try the electrical tape today. I'm guessing I should put a layer on the middle only since that is the part I can't get to touch the stone. Perhaps add one layer across the entire spine after that help help it gradually transition.

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Eliminate the spine issue and see what happens,, Use 2-3 layers of tape and see if the problem is lessened or eliminated, this will tell you where the problem most likely is..
You can use a tape trick like what you are describing but it isn't as easy as that, you have to do some experimentation to figure out which way the wind is blowing, I would just try 2-3 layers and see if you get improvement first..


PS: The easiest way to use a thin hone when you own a 3 inch Norton is to draw a pencil line down the length of the hone at 1 in or 1.5 in and just hone within that area, the honing gymnastics required to do that are the exact same as honing on a thin stone... :hmmm: Yes yes I know you can thank me later for saving you the cost of thin hones..

PPS: The experience of sitting down with an experienced honer cannot be talked up enough it will teach you more in a few hours then months of reading... Take Shooter up on his generous offer if it at all possible..

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

PS: The easiest way to use a thin hone when you own a 3 inch Norton is to draw a pencil line down the length of the hone at 1 in or 1.5 in and just hone within that area, the honing gymnastics required to do that are the exact same as honing on a thin stone... :hmmm: Yes yes I know you can thank me later for saving you the cost of thin hones..

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I can see how that might help. It would force me to hone with the heel well off the stone which would allow the middle to touch and be bevelled. I think I'll try that technique first and then try tape if that doesn't work.