Won't pass a basic test but shave fantastic!!

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08-18-2013, 11:58 PM
cudarunner

Won't pass a basic test but shave fantastic!!

I’m posting this not so much as to ask advice, but to seek knowledge about why??

First off, I’m no novice to honing as I’ve been at it for about 3 1/2 years. I’ve got about 150+ razors under my belt and all came out as nice shavers! I’ve honed near full wedges to extra hollow to bellied in all kinds of sizes from 4/8 to 8/8.

Those that have tasted my edges have always found them nice!

Now Here’s My Question/Problem!

I received an Ontario Cutlery 13/16+ square point from a friend down in Texas for a cleanup and a hone.

The cleanup was very easy and the blade looks very nice! Now here’s were I have questions!

The spine has a very, very, slight smile to it and it has little to no signs of hone wear, except at the very end of the toe and it’s very slight and it’s even on both sides!

However the edge of the blade was a roller coaster!!!!!

When the edge was placed on a smooth and flat surface there was a ‘bump’ that if measured from the center of it was about 1” from the heel. Then if the blade was rocked, it showed that there was a hollow next to it and a very small high spot about 5/8” from the toe.

After much contemplation I decided that the only thing to do was the ‘dreaded’ bread knifing! I used my well worn DMT 325 and went to work. At the end, I switched to Glen’s recommendation of using a 45 deg and then I lowered that to about 20 deg.

I put three layers of tape on the blade and went to work on the DMT, I constantly changed tape! I then started to go again with only two layers of tape and then finally one layer.

I moved to my King 1200 with new tape. I used slurry as I normally do and then repeated my system with clear water and then the Wet Thumbnail Test.

The area where the ‘bump’ was wouldn’t pass the test!!

I looked at the edge under my loupe and it looked like a good set bevel!!!!

I went back to work on the King and got the same results!!

At this point in time I said; f—k it! I went ahead and honed the razor up to the Naniwa 12K! Then did my typical post honing stropping.

Now here comes my problem!!!!!

While the area in question wouldn’t pass the thumbnail test or the arm hair test, I made a point of using that area on my jaw line and chin and it shaves fantastic!!!!!!

I do hope that Lynn, Glen, Randy, Stefen and others with years of experience can at least ‘try’ to tell my why the basic test failed but it delivers such a nice shave!!!

It beats the Hell Out Of Me!! :shrug:
08-19-2013, 12:40 AM
unit

I'm interested also. If it wouldn't shave arm hair I am at a loss to explain how it could pass a shave test.
08-19-2013, 01:02 AM
10Pups

I think he has just proved what has been said a million times. HHT , tree toping, thumb nail / pad tests are all fine and nice. What matters ? What does it do on your face. Not many have said F___ it and gone on to find out their test failed but the shave didn't. I will wait for the experts to chime in but I am betting your testing was off and your skill level wasn't. As long as there is no face of Jesus in the patina I think it is a safe bet.
08-19-2013, 01:10 AM
cudarunner

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10Pups

I think he has just proved what has been said a million times. HHT , tree toping, thumb nail / pad tests are all fine and nice. What matters ? What does it do on your face. Not many have said F___ it and gone on to find out their test failed but the shave didn't. I will wait for the experts to chime in but I am betting your testing was off and your skill level wasn't. As long as there is no face of Jesus in the patina I think it is a safe bet.

Hey Pups!

For many years I’ve said that the shave test is the ultimate ‘Test’! However the basic ‘tests’ can give you a ‘guide’ as to how you are doing!!

I started the wet thumbnail test off of the DMT 325 and that area in question didn’t respond!!

The same was all the way up!!

I quit any ‘testing’ after my first passes with slurry on the Norton 4K! After that I ‘Just Hone’!

This blade really has me baffled!:shrug:

I will say that my friend is going to have a Very Nice Shaver!! :tu
08-19-2013, 01:20 AM
10Pups

Maybe it's as simple as the temper of the steel. Could be it just doesn't work the same at lower grits. Something warped it somewhere in the past and if it was heat then the molecular structure changed and maybe just in that hot spot. Where are the geniuses anyway? This is driving me crazy now. :ziplip:
08-19-2013, 04:34 AM
gssixgun

I have always had a "Testing" issue with my Naniwa SS set I set the bevel on the Chosera 1k then switch to the SS set and nuttin honey, all the tests go wonky on me, I finally learned to just hone through and Bam at the 12k everything works like a champ and the shave is great :shrug:

Don't know if that is the same problem, because I have it on most all razors when I use the Naniwa SS set so I no longer do testing when I use those hones until the shave test...
08-19-2013, 06:32 AM
mrsell63

Nothing can replace a shave test. If it shaves smooth and clean, who cares how we got there?!!!

We feel that we must quantify everything. NOT!!!!

Strop and shave, if it works, great.
08-19-2013, 06:35 AM
onimaru55

If it shaves well especially ATG don't complain. LOL
Now & then I get one that knocks over arm hairs before cutting them. If I let up the hair springs back but If I follow thru it cuts. Could rate as a fail but the shave tells all.
When I used to use Arks I could get an arm shaving edge off a Washita then nothing on the soft & hard Arks. Edge would return on the Black Hard Ark.
08-19-2013, 03:22 PM
thebigspendur

I've never been a big fan of these tests to tell you the truth. I use arm hair shaving as a gauge but have always relied on actual shaving.
08-19-2013, 03:30 PM
kwlfca

Down with tests! :p
08-20-2013, 01:02 AM
Ryan82

When I started there were some very prominent members who said that if your razor couldn't cut arm hair above skin level the razor wasn't shave ready. I responded by saying that mine (at the time) didn't, yet still gave fantastic shaves. I never did receive a response lol.

Just further proof that tests are guidelines, and the shave test is all that counts....
08-20-2013, 04:00 AM
cudarunner

I would like to thank All Who have replied with their knowledge and experience!!:bow

At least I now know that ‘I’m not needing’ to see a DR. and lay on his couch!!!:shrug:

As I’ve said and have always said, the shave test is the ultimate ‘test’!!

I’ll keep this experience in mind! I always try to learn from experience!! :tu

I Thank You All Again!!

Roy
08-20-2013, 05:47 AM
nun2sharp

This has happened to me on a number of occasions and I just cant explain it, it will drive you nuts trying to figure it out. It is the razor though and not the stones, I am not a HADdict and use the same stones constantly.
08-20-2013, 05:53 AM
cudarunner

Quote:

Originally Posted by nun2sharp

This has happened to me on a number of occasions and I just cant explain it, it will drive you nuts trying to figure it out. It is the razor though and not the stones, I am not a HADdict and use the same stones constantly.

As I said, at least I know that I'm not the only one and I don't need to see a 'Head Dr'!!
08-20-2013, 05:59 AM
nun2sharp

Quote:

Originally Posted by cudarunner

As I said, at least I know that I'm not the only one and I don't need to see a 'Head Dr'!!

Just because you are not the only one does not mean you do not need to see the "Head Dr.".
08-20-2013, 06:03 AM
cudarunner

Quote:

Originally Posted by nun2sharp

Just because you are not the only one does not mean you do not need to see the "Head Dr.".

Funny you should say that! As that's exactly what my shrink told me at my last visit! :rofl2: :rofl2: :rofl2:
08-20-2013, 05:24 PM
Attila

As a novice honer, I find that there is some use in the HHT for me to gauge the general sharpness of a blade I am honing. For me, every time a blade failed on the HHT or hair treetopping test I have had pretty rough shaves. My beard is rather coarse and I need a blade that has a good degree of sharpness to it. Especially when I go ATG.

I know some of you guys have been at it a lot longer than I have and don't need to be as careful with your honing style...but I think some of these tests (especially the HHT and the treetopping hair test) have their place, as long as your tests are calibrated and you know what you are looking and testing for. I wouldn't dismiss them outright. They do work for some people. Myself included.

Perhaps I will get to a point in my honing career someday that they will no longer be needed (that would be nice!). But for now, I find them very useful.
08-20-2013, 10:28 PM
Berthold

I always do a HHT, so I must want it to pass that test. If it doesn't, I do something so that it does. I wish I didn't.
08-21-2013, 12:18 AM
unit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berthold

I always do a HHT, so I must want it to pass that test. If it doesn't, I do something so that it does. I wish I didn't.

Does "something" include getting a different hair? A big thick moist hair practically guarantees a "passing" grade:D
08-21-2013, 12:30 AM
Berthold

Good one. Thanks for that. If I get frustrated I will resort to that as a last ditch effort. So far, if a good stropping doesn't do the trick that tells me that the razor is due for a honing.