Possible short-comings... What might I try..

Bout two or three weeks into honing. I have a King 1k, Norton 4/8 and Black Ark. I've got about a two dozen razors that were my fathers that I am working my way through honing. Some are in better shape than others, all are a challenge.

I've taken time to set the bevel, confirming it is a clean edge with no chips or other issues (I used the thumb-pad test as well the Sharpie method on the edge to be sure the bevels meet). Then worked my way up through the stones to the Black Ark with soapy water. One razor I took through these steps seems to be shave ready and it pops hairs toe, heel & center. Visual inspection has it looking like any of the more professional hone jobs I have, yet it shaves like poop.

How does one diagnose what's wrong and how far down the stones I should go in an attempt to get it shave ready?

By "shaves like poop" do you mean it's rough, tugging, not cutting well, etc.?

The reason I ask is that several that I've honed up have been a little rough coming off the 8K initially, but mellowed out after a shave or two. I know nothing of arkie's so I can't comment there. Either way, you should be able to get a smooth, comfortable shave off the 8K by itself.

Also, are you stropping after honing or shaving directly off the stone? Depending on which way you're doing things, I'd do the opposite and see if it has any effects i.e. if you're stropping after honing without a shave test, try going at it directly off the stones. If you see an improvement, focus on your stropping. If you're going straight from the stones, try stropping and see if the edge mellows a bit.

All good questions, thank you.

For more focus, consider that I did two razors back to back. Same stones though not the same number of strokes as each had different issues to contend with.

The Black Ark is a finisher and once I am done there (super light, almost floating strokes with soapy water) the edger is pretty much a mirror.

Both received 100 strokes on the nylon and about 100 on leather before being used.

One shaves like a dream the other doesn't.

Poop = It doesn't really pull or tug. If it did, I make the assumption the bevel wasn't set properly and start from scratch. It does't clear whiskers as well as it think it should, or as good as the other blade that just wen through the same steps.

I do intend to give it a few shaves before I declare defeat, but I was surprised it wasn't much more effective than it has turned out. I don't want to go farther down the stones than needed.

I would continue on the 1k. And I wouldnt stop until it doesnt tug anymore with a 1 pass shave on the cheek. It will feel rough but should remove all the hair for that pass. Then I wohld further refine the edge. JMHO. Off the hone. When it diesnt tug then strop it and another pass to see if the strop is to blame. Dont hurt yourself by doing a dull shave off a 1k and no strop. .

Well, that brings to mind two questions in my novice brain:

1. Have you tried changing your angle a bit to see if that particular razor's geometry demands it?
2. Have you looked at the bevel and edge under magnification and found anything?

Again, novice here... just trying to think of possibilities. It's also possible that this particular razor just requires more lovin' than the other on the stones, be it pressure (or lack of), number of strokes, etc.

I'm sure one of the far, far more skilled than myself will be able to help you better. Just kickin' around ideas. :)

All good stuff, thanks...

I try to give each razor at least three days in rotation so I have a bit of time to get intimate with it's quirks. But having said that, much can be told from the first shaves, first pass. So while I haven't yet explored different angles, I will, but don't think that's going to make up the extra miles.

To my equally novice eye, this looks like one of the better bevels I have seen. I did hit it with a Sharpie and then examined it after the last pass on the Black Ark and all the black was gone. The thumb pad test is positive as well. And the edge is almost completely clear of scratches and certainly has no chips or irregularities.

I am the first to admit I am a complete Noob as far as honing goes, but what is the quality of the razor you are having issues with? Is it good steel?

Best of luck.

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Originally Posted by MikekiM

All good stuff, thanks...

I try to give each razor at least three days in rotation so I have a bit of time to get intimate with it's quirks. But having said that, much can be told from the first shaves, first pass. So while I haven't yet explored different angles, I will, but don't think that's going to make up the extra miles.

To my equally novice eye, this looks like one of the better bevels I have seen. I did hit it with a Sharpie and then examined it after the last pass on the Black Ark and all the black was gone. The thumb pad test is positive as well. And the edge is almost completely clear of scratches and certainly has no chips or irregularities.

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Have you looked at the edge from directly above to see if you see any shiny spots? Maybe it's possible that each side of the bevel isn't meeting all along the entire edge? :shrug:

*Edit: as a side note, I'm curious if some of the more experienced members are watching like proud, expectant fathers to see if we can work it out on our own. Sometimes, that really is the best way to learn. :)

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Originally Posted by MattCB

I am the first to admit I am a complete Noob as far as honing goes, but what is the quality of the razor you are having issues with? Is it good steel?

Best of luck.

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Butcher Brothers, Sheffield Steel... It's the top razor. Quality is relative, but it's no GD!!

http://www.emotion-images.com/img/s9...96010688-3.jpg

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Originally Posted by crouton976

Have you looked at the edge from directly above to see if you see any shiny spots? Maybe it's possible that each side of the bevel isn't meeting all along the entire edge? :shrug:

*Edit: as a side note, I'm curious if some of the more experienced members are watching like proud, expectant fathers to see if we can work it out on our own. Sometimes, that really is the best way to learn. :)

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HA!! I thought of that as well.

The use of the Sharpie is an attempt to see that the bevel is being set on both sides.. Same concept as a machinist using dye to tell if there are any high/low spots on a piece or we use pensil when lapping a new stone. It's hard to get the Sharpie exact but I am getting better. I strike both sides at the edge side of bevel, where they meet and do it on each level of stone. If there is any black left on the bevel, it's not okay to move to the next step of the progression. Once all the black is removed all the way to where the two bevels meet AND the other edge of the bevel is a sharp defined line, it's time for the thumb pad test. Only when both of these are in passing am I moving to the next step.

Hmm, well I'll be watching with interest to see how it turns out. Honing is something I plan to takel one of theses days.

It came to me in the shower... Funny how that happens.

The culprit must be poor bevel set. Even if I polished the heck out of it, if I moved forward without a well set bevel, all I have is a shiny mess.

It's back to the 1k with an extra dose of patience. Stay tuned

Yeah, that's what I was kinda referring to earlier about looking down on the edge to see if both sides of the bevel meet.

Look at this Wade & Butcher... see the shiny spot right at the toe of the blade? Both sides of the bevel don't meet there, add indicated by that spot, though toward the middle of the blade they do, which means it sorta shaves and sorta doesn't. :)

Try looking at yours to see if you see any shots like that.

I can't tell using that technique.. maybe it my eyes, or the lighting. That's why I started using the marker. I was reading gssixgun's sticky post Hitting the "Stone/Hone" Wall, and more than a few notes Glen makes point back to the bevel. Very few point to issues which might come up AFTER the bevel set.. So.. Back to the 1K it is!!