Newly Honed Razor Has a Hard time ATG

Hi,
To qualify my question I am a newbie which I'm sure you will soon determine for yourself.

I just had a Dovo Bismarck and a couple others sharpened by a vendor and when I shave with it WTG it's a little rough but shaves but when I go to do ATG in on my neck it's not up to the task. I've tried CrOx on balsa and a 10-15 on my Naniwa 12k. It will shave hairs off my arm but very very few if I just run it through my arm hair without touching skin.

I've been shaving for 60 days now and no problems except for the usuall learning curve. I have a new a Ralf Aust 5/8 I purchased purchased from Straight Razor Designs and it shaves great WTG, XTG, ATG, who by the way is not the vendor who sharped my Dovo.

Any recommendations on what to try with the tools I have the CrOx on Balsa and Naniwa 12k? I've ordered the Naniwa 1,5,8k but don't have yet.

Thanks in advance for any advice.
Guy

If the person you had hone it set the bevel correctly I would try a few light passes on the 12k followed by your CrOx, strop and try again. If that doesn't work, I would question the completeness of the honing and either wait till you get your stones in to try your self or send it out to another person to hone that has known success and praises from here. Glen, Lynn, etc. (trying yourself may be a long journey)

Seeing as it was your first razor with which you developed your shaving technique, you probably dulled the edge beyond the capabilities of the 12K. Either wait for the Nanis to arrive and start at the 8K, then 12K and crox -> test -> bad result -> 4K, 8K, 12K, crox -> test, or send it to Lynn/Glen or any of the members offering honing services in the classifieds.

Until such time, enjoy the shaves of the Ralf Aust, no need to hurt your face with a dull razor!

I'm a barbers hone user, so that is where I would go first. Failing that, a finishing stone or send it out would be my guess. There a many many barbers hones out there and they are not all created equal. They start at 6k and go way up from there, so you'll have to do some research to find out what you should get. The synthetic finish hones are way easier to shop for.

Laurens,
The Dovo razor in question was received back from honing at approx the same time as the Ralf Aust from SRD. So I expect them both to be sharp. I'm trying to get some recommendations as to what to try to fix it as I would like to learn honing. Can I do it with a 12k Naniwa and CrOx balsa or do i need more? I plan on using professionally honed razors until I'm competent.

Thanks
Guy

If you want to learn honing, you've got a very good setup once the other hones arrive. Keep the Ralf Aust as your reference for shave-readiness and practise on the Dovo. Don't be surprised if it takes you months to get anywhere near the level of the Ralf Aust, Lynn's got some practice :P

Read up on honing and watch movies, but mostly practise practise practise. The most important suggestion I can come up with is making sure your strokes are even. Slow and steady is good, fast and sloppy will never get you there. Good luck!

All the stones in the world won't make up for an uneven stroke. It takes time to learn and get the feel for honing. Your stroke must be even and your pressure must be weight of the blade only. Go slow, one slip up can damage the edge. Slow is smooth and smooth is fast. Also be sure that your stone is completely smooth, especially on the edges, as well as properly lapped.

If you found the honing to be unsatisfactory, perhaps you should consider sending a message to the vendor. Different people may hone razors differently, depending on their beard types...it's possible that when they shave tested your razor before sending it back to you, they found it to be satisfactory for them. This has happened to me where I received my Dovo "shave ready", when to me it wasn't nearly sharp enough. Because I am a novice honer, I am still trying to find the "sweet spot" for me, particularly for the ATG pass.

Also remember that the best honing can be undone by poor stropping. Be sure that your stroke remains light, and pay attention to how your stroke sounds...if your stroke sounds uneven, it is. It is easy to slowly slip up over time. Some of the best advice from Glen is that learning to strop comes in two stages: not damaging the edge, and improving the edge.
Do not misunderstand, I'm not criticizing your stropping, merely passing along wisdom for your consideration.

Good luck and have fun.

Kyle,
No criticizing taken as I have no where to go but up at this point :) I'm slowly getting better in all aspects shaving, stropping, but not much effort into honing so far. I plan to use this and another razor to learn honing. I am fascinated by the whole art of straight shaving. I find it much more rewarding than either DE or disposable shaving. Until I get better I will reply on professionals.

Thanks
Guy

A good place to start would be watching Lynn's refreshing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v= and do what he does with your nani 12k. Do your 5-7 strokes and then shave a couple times to get a good feel for what you've done to the edge. Repeat if necessary or until it's comfortable for you. Easing your way into honing is much less frustrating than learning from bevel set up, IMO anyway

Thanks for the replies so far. So if a razor was not sharp enough to begin with to shave ATG would I be able to get it there with a Naniwa 12k and/or CrOx? Or would I need to do something like Laurens suggested "start at the 8K, then 12K and crox -> test -> bad result -> 4K, 8K, 12K, crox -> test," Or start from scratch with a new bevel? Forgive any stupid questions I'm just starting down the honing path.

Thanks in Advance
Guy

You should be able to get there with the nani 12k.

Ok I received all my Naniwa stones so I have the 1,5,8, and 12k. I'm still working on my Dovo Bismarck 5/8. I did a small pyramid on the 5,8 k 1-3 then a 1-5 then followed with 10 on the 12k, 20 CrOx, 60 laps on leather strop. The razor still barely tree tops the hairs on my arms. I was I able to shave I did only WTG but 2 passes. It seemed to cut nice but a little hard to cut in the thick hair areas. My face though feels irrated all day? When I save with the razor from SRD I get minimal irratation. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Guy

I would reset the bevel and start over. It seems the razor may need a little more than a touch up. Many may disagree but the vast majority of honing issues are bevel related. You've already tried the 5 and 8k. Although the 5k may get you there it may take a long time. When you think the bevel is set, strop and lather up and take one pass wtg on the cheek carefully. It may feel rough but should cut all the hair. No need to attempt a whole shave, it will be rough, we are just trying to establish sharpness, not a finished edge. If it doesn't, keep plugging on the 1k.

Bill3152,
I was thinking the same thing. I've watched Lynn's honing video using the Naniwa's about million times I guess now is as good a time as any.

Is tree topping a good indicator that thing are good?

Thanks
Guy

I use a visual and tree topping and thumbnail test. I go for all three. It's tricy til you know when it's set. Good luck.

Different people,different hair, different places, different results. My leg hair corresponds better with shave ready than my arm hair ( which seems to tree top easier). That's a learning thing too. Check them against ur SRD razor for a good start. Hang in there. Fun just starting.

It helps to be able to see what your doing at the 1k level also. Do you have any thing to magnify ? I have also been wondering if you have asked the vendor who did this WHAT'S UP! He may fix it for you and then you can learn on something cheaper.

I'd like to add an eye loop can be a great tool to have and a very bright light. You will be able to see what your doing , and what you have changed while by honing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 10Pups

It helps to be able to see what your doing at the 1k level also. Do you have any thing to magnify ? I have also been wondering if you have asked the vendor who did this WHAT'S UP! He may fix it for you and then you can learn on something cheaper.

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I have been talking to the vendor and he has given suggestions and said he would re sharpen as many times as I want, but also thinks it's more likely the way I shave because I'm a newbie. The thing that makes me not so sure it's me is the ralf aust I bought from SRD shaves perfect no irritation or anything bad. And the fact that it does not tree top anywhere near as good as the ralf aust. I guess I'm trying to use this as a learning experience to break into honing.

Thanks
Guy

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trimmy72

I'd like to add an eye loop can be a great tool to have and a very bright light. You will be able to see what your doing , and what you have changed while by honing.

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I do have an eye loop and your right I do need to start using it.

Thanks
Guy

Maybe finished on a different stone, than the Aust' perhaps? to me your choices are send it back to the vendor, and give them a chance to correct it or send it out to someone else. IMO I would also think "newbie" same as the vendor, but would offer to hone it again just as the vendor has.

Edit: Didn't see that you received your hones, excellent now the fun begins! or is that frustration?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lonerider

Ok I received all my Naniwa stones so I have the 1,5,8, and 12k. I'm still working on my Dovo Bismarck 5/8. I did a small pyramid on the 5,8 k 1-3 then a 1-5 then followed with 10 on the 12k, 20 CrOx, 60 laps on leather strop. The razor still barely tree tops the hairs on my arms. I was I able to shave I did only WTG but 2 passes. It seemed to cut nice but a little hard to cut in the thick hair areas. My face though feels irrated all day? When I save with the razor from SRD I get minimal irratation. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Guy

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Wait are you saying that you only did 1-3 strokes on the 5K, 1-3 strokes on the 8K?

I'm really confused as to what you're actually doing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kwlfca

Wait are you saying that you only did 1-3 strokes on the 5K, 1-3 strokes on the 8K?

I'm really confused as to what you're actually doing.

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Sorry for the confusion. I did 1 lap on the 5k then 3 laps on the 8k then 1 lap on the 5k and 5 laps on the 8k.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lonerider

Sorry for the confusion. I did 1 lap on the 5k then 3 laps on the 8k then 1 lap on the 5k and 5 laps on the 8k.

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I'm going to suggest that you watch these and do what Glen does.
You can also search Lynn Abrams on youtube to find his channel, he has all sorts of videos that you can watch, including him using naniwas.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2E9sovmb0Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gB-s6qiJx2s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZWLNvY_gXI

Ok I've got my hones all lapped. My arms are pumped after that :). I've been watching Lynn's and Glenn's videos for a week. I'm goings to try Lynn's circular honing method starting with the 1k. Wish me luck. I will let you know the results.

Ok my first complete honing from the bevel up with my new Naniwa's . I followed Lynn's circle honing video. It actually went pretty good. Is it as sharp as the Ralph Aust from SRD no. Is it sharp enough to do a 3 pass shave with ATG on my lip with no irritation yes!

So now that I've honed from the bevel on up with Lynn's circle honing method. If I want to see how sharp I can make the razor without over honing does anyone have any recommendations? Or would I just keep repeating from scratch starting with setting the bevel until I get it as sharp as possible?

Thanks for all the feedback
Guy

If the bevel is set, there is no need to go back to it, just polish with the finer stones to make smoother