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I am pretty new to honing...
I find that the center of the blade cuts hair better than the toe and the heel of the blade when I am done. I also have to admit that as I'm honing, I can see water pushing from the center of the blade much more than the toe and heel. Is this a sign of a stone that needs to be further lapped? Could it be anything else?
Thanks guys...
ESL,
A stone should always be flat as a mirror. I lap my stones routionely before each 2nd hone. I don't wait until the concavity or convexity of the stone ruins an edge. Apart from that you do not inform us about your razor. Is the blade smiling? If so, this video might be of any help: Honing A Smiling Straight Razor Blade - YouTube
(double X-stroke instruction by Lewis).
If your hone is flat you probably have a smiling blade: the middle section of the cutting edge being in full contact with the hone all the time while the heel and toe aren't. Do you have pics?
Question: on the video, he starts off with setting the bevel with tape on the razor. Initially sets it with the tape and then removes it and redoes the bevel without tape.
Should it be just the other way? If you're setting a double beveled edge shouldn't the 'steeper' edge be set Last??
If your stone is not properly lapped, the blade would be more likely to fail to contact the center of the stone and get the opposite result from what you are experiencing. I think your stroke is concentrating on the center of the blade. If you use a very slight "rolling-x" stroke, you'll probably get better results.
I set the bevel the first time with tape. I did not want to do a lot of work on the coarse hones and get a lot of hone wear on the spine of the blade. After I had the bevel set with tape, I took the tape off and and reset the bevel without tape. The tape was to prevent excess hone wear on the coarse hones.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnus
I was not trying to get a double bevel, I was just minimizing hone wear. I always set the bevel the first time with tape on the blade, and then I decide if I am going to use tape or not during the rest of the honing process.
Using tape when setting the bevel is a good idea after/when doing repair work or restoration work on a blade. Sanding and buffing really kill the edge. In this case I had just made that blade, and this was the first time I had honed it.
Charlie
Make sure the hone is flat, and once that is done, try a varying degree of rolling X's.
How rolling really depends on how much of a smile the razor has on it.
Thanks guys. I'm pretty sure the blade is NOT smiling. It's a new Dovo Bismarck and initially honed by Lynn. Since then, I have only touched it up here and there and never reset the bevel.
Hi ECL,
Condensing the contents of this thread, would it not have been more fruitful to have started it in a way like this:
"Hi guys,
I own a brand new Dove Bismarck so the blade is per definition not smiling and was shipped to me after being honed by Lynn. However, bringing the blade to the stone I do not manage to obtain a straight edge. Might it be that I'm rubbing the blade on a bastardized stone?"
Teasing you!
Joost
The straight lap is not the only stroke for honing. You have to determine what stroke will cover the edge from heel to toe. I would try a heel leading stroke and rock it as you are honing. That will get the whole edge. Most blades are not completely flat and straight. Lift the toe while you are starting at the heel and watch the water displacement. That will tell you where you are on. Or use magic marker test.
I never used the rocking X-stroke. I feel the rocking worsens the smile. I use narrower hones, 1-2" width, instead.
Gssixgun told me correctly to use one side of the hone in a case like this and he was 100%, correct. I was considering cutting some hones.
Gentlemen,
It seems to me that we do not take proper notion of the subject and talk past each other. It is stated that the edge of the blade is right without any smiling. Then there remains in my humble vision nothing but looking to the properties of the stone. And a brand new Dovo, straight as an iron - if ever - has no other need than a simple flat stone and simple strokes performed by a simple shaving man. I'm such a man.
Joost
and apparently I am not such a man because I am struggling and looking for advice...
ESL
Have you used a magic marker to see what is happening to the edge while you hone? That might hold some explanation of what is going on with the edge.
Bob
One side of the hone??
I'm not sure what you mean with this. But even if I did, I have a Norton 4k/8k so I only have one side to work with on each :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Airportcopper
I can try the magic marker test, thanks. But by looking at the water push away it definitely LOOKS like the toe and heel are not pushing the water the same way. Is this what it typically looks like? Maybe I'm misreading what the water is doing...
Hi Senior ESL,
This Junior is very amused by the route this debate is taking. I shall work this problem out to the bone. But beware. I think that many readers will accuse me of putting on the jacket of the schoolmaster by telling facts that have been told in a hundredfold before, plowing through SRP.
Joost
Well the blade appears to not be sharp except for in the center. The advise I gave you was valid IMO as the blade is not hitting the hone equally at certain areas of the blade. So I would do what I am telling you if it was my blade. It only follows the edge of the blade and that is necessary to hone this one, or if you keep honing the blade flat, you will remove a lot of metal in the center to eventually get to the heel and toe. Its your blade and choice of course and I feel Im giving you the best advice. Others know much more than me though.Quote:
Originally Posted by joostmoree
Well, you might be surprised what the magic marker will tell you or not but it is a way of checking.Quote:
Originally Posted by EggSuckingLeech
Bob
Right guys, let's see if we cannot straighten this out.
First off, if your razor only hits the center of the blade, there may be a number of things going on.
As stated earlier, get your hone flat.
Getting that out of the way, should make things easier moving forward.
Now, from the description from the OP, it seems to be a Newer Dovo we are talking about, and honed by Lynn at that.
Based on that, I would say that it should be able to take an edge without going to the extremes of honing on the sides of hones and other more exotic maneuvers.
Furthermore, the OP has stated that the razor isn't a much of a smile to speak about.
So, then we need to address the actual stroke used to get the described result.
Does it behave the same on both sides?
If so, I would think it safe to say we have an issue with the honing stroke. (If as stated earlier, the hone is now flat)
A heal leading motion up and down the hone, with a slight rocking motion should in all probability do the trick.
With such a motion you are actually using just the first inch or so of the hones width.
This will allow you to actually get to all parts of the edge on most razors.
Only the really twisted or bent razors will not get properly honed using this method.
Right.
Let us know if any of our tips so far helps at all, and if not, what seems to be happening along the edge when these tips are applied?
Birnando
That is pretty close to how I do all my razors, 99% are not new and have some sort of quirk to the blade. The magic marker will tell me after the first stroke or two how I need to adjust the toque to the blade to get full even contact.
Bob
Yeah, me too:)Quote:
Originally Posted by BobH
The magic marker is indeed an indispensable tool when honing trouble-razors.
Guystlemen,
Considering my earlier entry announcing working this thing out to the bone, I
was about to deal with the basics of flattening a stone, though it is way past midnight. But in the meantime Mod. Birnando interrupted with among others, I quote: "As stated earlier, get your hone flat."
So, I retreat and await your reactions on Birnandos statements in their entirety.
Yours,
Joost
hehe - good one :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Birnando
I THINK my hone is flat! I don't really know how to tell for sure but I ran the DMT over it again last night to be sure. I don't have alot of confidence in any of my honing skills :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Birnando
It does.Quote:
Originally Posted by Birnando
OK I will try that. I was honing with the blade perpendicular to the hone and very little to no X-pattern.Quote:
Originally Posted by Birnando
Traditionally razors have always been honed with an X stroke because straight razors are not always so straight & even a slight warp or misgrind will be a challenge to the beginner who tries to just go up n down the stone.Quote:
Originally Posted by EggSuckingLeech
The spine determines the edge so both need to contact the stone. I know it's a simplistic view but you haven't achieved that with the stroke your using. Get the magic marker working & see what stroke will erase it. Personally I use a loupe to see where I'm at but the marker method is good too.