Thread: What are the Indicators for you it's time to move up in the progression?

Originally Posted by Ru4scuba

...pretty certain I understand a lot of folks' indicators for bevel setters (TNT, TPT, even bevel across the blade)

I think I understand that finishers are as much an art form as anything, so deciding papers to be much based on user preference.

- What does TNT and TPT stand for?
- What is a deciding paper?

Originally Posted by TomBrooklyn

- What does TNT and TPT stand for?
- What is a deciding paper?

"The Nail Test" and "The Thumb pad Test"

See the Wiki for more info...

-john

For me it depends on the razor as much as anything else. Over time you get to know a razor's (or even a manufacturer's) quirks and what works best for a particular hone.

Of course the other thing it depends on is the hone.

But as a general rule off the 4K I test using a wet thumb nail. Off the 8K I test using arm hair wafting. My general approach is to produce an edge that gives a good shave after the 8K. That way my "finishers" are just icing the cake, as it were.

James.

oh another consistent sign is if after stropping there is a very noticeable increase in suction and its cutting leg/armhair effortlessly it shoud produce a very good edge.

Alex

I am just going to mention this,,

There has not been one Meet that I have attended that the AHT worked for everyone at the table... There has always been one person sitting there that it fails with..

That being said if it works for you "Great" but there are other tests to work through also you have the TNT at the bevel stage, the AHT the TPT, water flow/undercutting, even Magnification helps..

Figure out at least one test that works for you, more is better but at least one that you can nail it every time..

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Figure out at least one test that works for you, more is better but at least one that you can nail it every time..

Thats what I meant to say I keep forgetting the learning stages I went through... for instance the HHT wasnt a big success for me but it has its place along with the other tests mentioned.

Coming off the coticule I have, the AHT seems very reliable so far.

kind regards
Alex

Originally Posted by gssixgun

I am just going to mention this,,

There has not been one Meet that I have attended that the AHT worked for everyone at the table... There has always been one person sitting there that it fails with..

That being said if it works for you "Great" but there are other tests to work through also you have the TNT at the bevel stage, the AHT the TPT, water flow/undercutting, even Magnification helps..

Figure out at least one test that works for you, more is better but at least one that you can nail it every time..

Good point - I'm one with flat laying arm hair so it's almost impossible for me to use the AHT. I use the HHT but you have to learn how to interpret the results - it's not so much does the blade cut during the HHT but "how" it cuts the hair... the WIKI is a good resource for the HHT and getting started on interpreting the results.

I know I have a good edge when I can hold a very THIN hair by the ROOT end and just touch it to the blade and have the hair fall away.

-john

Originally Posted by gssixgun

I am just going to mention this,,

There has not been one Meet that I have attended that the AHT worked for everyone at the table... There has always been one person sitting there that it fails with..

That being said if it works for you "Great" but there are other tests to work through also you have the TNT at the bevel stage, the AHT the TPT, water flow/undercutting, even Magnification helps..

Figure out at least one test that works for you, more is better but at least one that you can nail it every time..

really? The AHT? When you say "fails" what do you mean....doesn't effortlessly cut hair but still cuts? Even my roughest blades cut armhair if pushed a bit...

Originally Posted by Ru4scuba

really? The AHT? When you say "fails" what do you mean....doesn't effortlessly cut hair but still cuts? Even my roughest blades cut armhair if pushed a bit...

I dont want to answer for Glen but IME its how it cuts an armhair;
a thin armhair can be cut with a half bevel set from a coticule and thick hair can be cut with resistence
a full bevel will cut thick hair usually with some sort of noise (dependant on razor) and little resistence
a fully honed stropped razor for me has to be able to cut a thick armhair with no sound and no resistence at all, and leave no indicators that you've been cut apart from the cut hair itself.

i have a rough beard so the edge needs to pass the AHT which works very well for me, the lack of armhair is becoming an issue though...

Alex

Edit: i've also been wondering, depending on the hone, would certain tests better suit certain hones? because i believe the coticule edge is too soft sometimes to register with a HHT test, i used the TNT and a grippy edge didnt guarantee a set bevel in my case but I could see how it may apply to other hones...

Originally Posted by Ru4scuba

really? The AHT? When you say "fails" what do you mean....doesn't effortlessly cut hair but still cuts? Even my roughest blades cut armhair if pushed a bit...

See this is why the Meets are not only a learning experience for the new guys, but it is also a learning experience for many of us that are there teaching..

If you look at my posts before the NC meet in 2009 I was always promoting the AHT as the best Bevel set gauge to move forward, heck if you couldn't pop Arm hair the razor wasn't sharp enough..
Then sitting at the table with a bunch of guys passing a bevel set razor around so they could do the tests and feel how sharp a razor really is at that stage we get a fail, one guy there can't get it to cut his Arm hair.. I figure it is operator error and move on ..
All the way through to the finisher he can't get it to ever pass, the AHT just doesn't pass for him, after that I started adjusting my statements to "Use all the tests, figure at least one that always works for you"..
This same thing has happened at every Meet, usually it is the AHT but there are often times people just can't get a positive result using a certain test..
When explaining to a new honer now, how to test their edge, I never assume what works so easy for me everyday, is going to do the same for them, not after all the meets I have gone to and people I have Mentored at my house.