How fine is the line?

I am honing on a Norton 4/8k, and i have managed to hone a number of razors so they are just about acceptable. My one thought about my progress is that i cannot tell if i am being too conservative or too aggressive with honing. I think i am more likely to be too aggressive. My razors seem to get their sharpest by luck, the fact that i must have stopped by accident at the right time.
The point of this is to ask the question, how fine are the lines between the beginning of being shave ready to optimally shave ready then to overhoned. (maybe in terms of passes on the 8k?)
Also once a razor is overhoned, how many passes on the 8k do you think it would tend to take to be ready again, as i think frustration causes me to hone them back to being over honed again!
I appreciate that every razor is different and the steel is different hardnesses etc, but just an average guideline number of passes would be great so that i can improve the edge i can get.
Thanks
Nick

Once it's overhoned you need to either backhone or drop down a grit for a few passes before heading back up. There's no "average" number of passes to get the edge right - there really is a huge variation between razors, because some razors are very hard and take a lot of passes to get anywhere, some razors have wider bevels and take a lot of passes to get anywhere, and some razors tend to microchip when they're overhoned and take a lot of passes to get anywhere. This is one of the reasons the honemeisters tend to recommend the pyramid system, with edge-testing between each pyramid.

Unfortunately, honing is a whole lot of art and a little bit of science :-(

Yes MP hit the nail on the head on this one. The only thing I'll add is that the line between not honed, honed and ruined edge can be very fine and very wide. Like the man said its an art.

Once the razor is just about "acceptable", in terms of its ability to shave, then drop down to using just the 8K for 5-10 laps between each shave. Do this 3 times and you will now know the rate of change that occurs. From there you can decide if it need more or less laps on the 8K.

A more aggressive approach is to use 1/5, 1/5,1/5 between each shave. Do this 3 times and again you will know the rate of change that occurs and you can decide from there what to do next.

The mistake that guys usually make is to attempt to get the "perfect" edge on the first honing. That is a very unreasonable expectation. Frankly, It usaully take me at least two honing sessions/shave tests and usually 3-4.

The advantage of going slowly is that you are less likely to overhone and you get to know the hone and razor better.


Hope this helps,:)

I am glad you mentioned this, i was thinking about whether this would be a good technique to try. I guess that any progress will be gradually noted, until you see that it starts getting worse, then you know it is just right.
I thought I was being over hopeful that there would be an easy solution to knowing when it is 'ready'!
Thanks
Nick