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I am familiar with stereo microscopes from my high school days. Is it possible to use a compound microscope if light is projected from above? Most stereo scopes only go to 80X and with a compound the magnification can be much higher. Any help would be appreciated.
Here are a couple scope set ups. A bright overhead light source is required. A white background beneath the blade helps to focus on the edge. 100X magnification is optimum IMHO. Use of higher magnification and it becomes very difficult to inspect the length of the edge from heel to tip.
Practice first by understanding what a 1K edge looks like (bevel set). Then move to 4 and 8K edge to see what they look like. Then observe the 8K edge after you strop it with leather, linen, paste etc. Observe the edge after a shave, after 5 shaves. Lots to learn along the way. Have fun.
MIke
http://i.imgur.com/6rHylWA.jpg
The higher the magnification the more light you need because at higher mag the light gathering power decreases. (The same with telescopes by the way). But you don't need that much to see the edge. Too much and any edge will look bad. I find 80x to be overkill and with my stereo microscope 40x is as much as I ever need or want to see. Really, a quality hand-lens at 14x is all you need.
Thank you very much for your respones. There is a great deal to learn.
Jerry1
I'm thinking of obtaining a magnification devise that can record/share.
"EyeClops BioniCam" is one example
I use this 20X Fowler with light. It works perfectly for me. Not to strong of power, a boatload of light, and the convenience of use makes it my go too for magnification over a loup.
Attachment 145374
With the compound microscope you will find the area in focus to be a very short distance up or down. If you already have the 'scope, put a piece of woo about a quarter inch thick by a half inch wide, centered fore and aft on the stage. That will allow your razor to stay in focus while you sli\de it back and forth on the microscope.
Cheap flexible book lights work well for the illumination when taped to the barrel f the 'scope. A photo made before I put the wood stage on it.
http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/...00007_crop.jpg
Have fun!
~Richard
PS if you have not bought the 'scop, these are cheap on the 'bay and other placesand and work well!:
http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z...4751/Scope.jpg
They also make one to be on your cell phone camera.
Great idea Geezer but what about the Old Mill salted peanuts? :rofl2:
Don't get the salt on the blades!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Raol
~Richard
Keep it coming. I am totally new and open to all thoughts. I appreciate all of you taking the time to share.
You don't need stereo microscope, you are inspecting a surface (or even a line) and don't need to see 3D, but it's probably nicer to have if you do.
The magnification is not the critical issue, it's the resolution, i.e. what level of details you can see. A high quality optics will show you a lot more detail at 30x magnification than low quality at 100x. Yes, it would be 3x smaller picture but there is no value in a blur no matter the magnification.
The one I use is Leica from the 1930s and looks like the one on the right in the picture in post #2. It depends what you want to see. With mine at 60x magnification I can tell the difference that a 8000 grit hone makes. I am not talking about the scratches, but the roughness of the edge (teeth if you like, even though they are not teeth).
So, I can hone a razor completely by simply looking in the microscope and not testing the edge in any other way.
If I couldn't see that level of detail, for example if I used a loupe or the radioshack microscope, I would use it while setting the bevel to make sure there are no microchips left along the edge (I could do that even without magnification as long as there is strong light), and afterwards I'd use other tests like how the razor interacts with the hone (tactile and visual, may be even auditory on some razors), how it interacts with hair, or TPT to determine whether it is time to switch hones.
A microscope is just a tool, it is not necessary for honing, there are other tools which can accomplish the task of telling you when to switch hones. Sometimes though if things keep failing for unknown reason a microscope can be very helpful in determining the problem.
As any tool you have to learn to use it correctly though. Depending on how the light falls on the blade you may not be able to see any detail, but that's easy to fix - you just move the light or the blade around until you get the correct exposure. Once you figure it out it's pretty easy to inspect the edge quickly.
I agree with Gugi, you don’t need a stereo or USB scope to learn to hone. While I do have a USB scope and fight with it frequently, for years I honed without any magnification, then a 10X loupe, then a 60-100X Radio Shack handheld scope.
While the view from a USB scope or stationary microscope is interesting and can help define problems, they are a pain and time consuming to use while honing.
As said, while honing a strong light and the minimal magnification that can be easily and quickly deployed to identify problems or progress is your best bet.
A chip is still a chip at 10X or 400X. And even if you could not see it, your face will let you know.
I have a stereo scope @ 40x that I used to use for checking the points on tattooing needles. I have used it on the edges of razors but mostly use my 30x eye loupe instead. As gugi said, quality of the optic is more important than the amount of magnification I have dabbled with 100x but found my honing looks much better at 30x ....... :nj
Thanks for taking the time to help a newie. I have a long way to go but at least others have been there.
Jerry1
This is all like 'looking for Eyebrow Mites with a magnifying glass'. sounds like fun. ... But do you really want to know??!!
I agree that not knowing is comfortable. I appreciate all comments.
There is real merit in not chasing your own tail by using very high magnification when honing. You are not building a rocket just trying to learn the "art" of honing.Quote:
Originally Posted by jerry1
Bob
There is honing and then there is being obsessive with an edge which goes way beyond the reason for having the edge. Of course if you are doing a research project on how keen to get an edge before it crumbles then that's another story.
True… and there is that about honing and the source of confusion for many new honers.
They come to the web sites and see these 400X photos of edges honed on some “Oxide” film or dinosaur poop stone and think that is what need to get the sharpest, smoothest edge.
When really people have been honing for hundreds of years with one or a couple of hones without microscopes and still shaving their faces without removing skin.
Obsession is a good thing, it pushes the envelope, but very few folks drive to work in race cars… not that there anything wrong with that…
All you need is enough magnification and light to determine if you are making progress or going backwards.
I can tell more about an edge with a 40x stereoscope than I can with a compound scope at much higher magnification.
I am fortunate to have access to some high-end optical microscopes, and have looked at a multitude of objects in them over the years.
It is not possible to resolve the edge of a razor with an optical microscope. In my opinion, the minimum magnification required to see 'shave ready' is 10,000x.
That said, a magnified view of the edge provides information. Some people will find this information useful, others will not.
In simple terms, higher magnification results not only in a smaller field of view but in a shallower depth of field and shorter working distance. Not ideal for imaging a razor since the bevel must be perpendicular and very close to the lens. A better choice is a microscope (or loupe) with a longer working distance and a greater depth of field, this allows the blade to be tilted through the light source which usually provides more information than straight-on imaging. Even in a high-end microscope, 50-100x is more useful than 200x-1000x. Personally, I use a 10x loupe when honing.
