Learning a Naniwa 1k

Greetings folks :)

I am getting back into my straights after a few years hiatus and decided to have a go at this honing caper.

I have sourced a Naniwa Super Stone in 1k as my starting point to learn how to set a bevel and to try and progress from there. Stone has been lapped on a glass plate and w/d sandpaper @ 600 grit (some statewide shortage of low grit W/D here for some reason.)

The sacrificial lamb in all this is a Dixie Blue Steel razor made in Georgia. I'll try and get some pics tonight but basically I chose this razor out of my collection as it looked to not have any glaring issues to test my newbie stroke too severely. There is some pitting/chipping of the edge near the heel but apart from this the razor seem to have a nice straight edge and pretty even honewear.

I watched Glen's honing on Naniwa video series - he sets the bevel on a King stone :rofl2: and had at it for about an hour last night. I have previously honed in a seated position but I really found standing at the stone like Glen did to be more comfortable and helped with my droopy elbow tendency a lot.

I made several sets of circles trying to chase out the edge issues near the heel. I did reduce these significantly but I reached a point where I didn't seem to be eliminating the last of the biggest imperfections. This was probably 6 sets of circles total, 3 of the sets with some added pressure from my spare hand to the problem area. Do I just need to do more sets to eliminate the pitting or could I be inducing extra damage? I just don't have any point of reference for how many sets/how long I should expect to remove pits/chips.

Knowing I will be back to the hone more than a few times as I learn and wanting to ask the above questions I decided to move on so I could practice the other strokes. I made several sets of straight and x-strokes, I found these very much easier in a standing position with the second hand helping to guide the razor. A couple of times I thought I had made a very bad stroke or something was wrong with the stone but I realised I was picking up the stabiliser on the side of the hone. Not a good feeling but now I know I need to watch that on my push stroke.

I had a good TNT along the length of the blade but could feel the difference in sensation at the heel where the issues remained. The razor wouldn't really shave arm hair at this point but could cut paper with almost zero pressure along the length. The edge looked in pretty good order at this point on inspection. I gave the razor 10 very light x-strokes after these tests and then stropped 50 linen, 30 leather. The last cm or so of the toe still wouldn't shave arm hair but the rest of the blade did. That catchy/grabby edge near the heel did it very easily - stupid serrations!

I did note that some of the edge in the middle of the blade appeared to have degraded after the stropping and hair cutting. Could the edge have been too thin from being on the hone too long chasing those heel problems? It could be a stropping error but it looks more like some very small pieces have just fallen out of the edge. I have a kept a few straights shave ready for over a year with stropping and crox on balsa so I don't think it was my fault on the strop at least. Any thoughts on this?

My 30x loupe has arrived today so perhaps I will get some better insight with magnification.

My current thinking is to dull the edge with a couple of strokes on glass and start again. Should I persevere with heel until I'm back to clean steel, redull and then try to set a bevel across the full length? Can anyone give me a guide as to how long on the 1k hone it should take to nail these edge chips on the heel and/or if there is anything I should be aware of that may be hindering me? (apart from not being very good! )

Cheers :)

You have to find Clean Even steel, you just have to, there can be no shortcut in that...

This is a thread about restoration but I took some Micro Pics of the edge as I searched for clean steel, so it should give a good indicator for you..

http://straightrazorpalace.com/works...er-2013-a.html

Paper is for reading and writing it has no use in honing straight razors :p the TNT is your friend right now until you get a clean bevel set...

And yes if your pitting is so bad that it is popping out at the edge you can kill the edge, and start again with a few light down strokes..

Remember you are not honing until you have clean even steel at the edge...


Hope that helps

Hi Glen,

Thanks for your post and your link...and reading my novella!

No attempts to shortcut going on. I am just working on the basis of being able ask questions and take off more steel as the easier option than to ask questions and have to try and and travel back in time to reverse something foolish I have done :D I have read the overhoning page in the wiki today and it seems unlikely that this is the cause of my trouble further up the edge.

I will inspect the razor with some magnification this evening and return to the hone and see if I can improve on where I am.

I am not in any rush to get this razor shaving. I just want to try and understand a set bevel and ingrain a reliable stroke on the hone in the short term.

Cheers :)

Armed with a sharpie and my new loupe I strode back into the fray last night...

A couple of things became quickly apparent. My nice straight edge actually doesn't touch the hone on the last cm of the toe or the last cm or so of the heel. The lack of sharpness at the toe and the lack of chip removal at the heel started making a lot more sense!

I am guessing that initially I was subconsciously rocking the razor onto the heel and getting reduction on the chips. As I got closer I started concentrating more on a very even stroke and stopped contacting the edge and stopped making progress.

With this knowledge I actually honed out the chips in pretty short order. I redulled on a bottle and started to try to set a bevel.

What I have ended up with is, I think, a well set bevel excepting the heel and toe areas that don't touch the hone with a flat spine. This middle section of the blade is cutting arm hair straight from the hone very easily. I am thinking this is because the middle section got a good workout from the circle sets. I wasn't game to try a "rolling circle set" as such so I guess the heel and toe have just had that much less material removed.

The middle section was being sharpened on the circles, the straight down the hone strokes and during my rolling X strokes.

The toe and heel were only getting sharpened during the rolling X stroke.

What is the best way to proceed from here? Do I just need to make a lot of rolling X strokes to catch up the heel and toe or is there another method I should consider? Will/should the bevel angle on the heel and toe be an exact match for the middle part of the blade or will it differ?

Thanks,
SyD :)

Not unusual for heels & toes to miss the stone so it's up to you to make contact. Your loupe & maybe the marker test will help there.
Sometimes it takes just a little pressure variance sometimes a rolling stroke. You can even hone these areas selectively for a few strokes then even up the whole edge with your X stroke. Make sure your stone edges are well smooth & chamfered.

The rolling x works fine, use the Sharpie a couple of times to get the idea of what gymnastics you must do during the stroke to contact the edge evenly..
The other way of hitting the whole edge is using a 45 degree heel forward swooping stroke

Thanks guys.

I will have another crack tonight or tomorrow and see how I go.

Cheers,
SyD

If you do get stuck sometimes it worth while finding a local for some hands on teaching. edhewitt has been trying to get a group together in Perth, might be worth having a look if it interests you.

http://straightrazorpalace.com/down-...ial-going.html

The more people that show interest the more likely it's to happen

I'm trying to give Ed a euro palmolive stick and he won't talk to me. I'm worried the social might be kinda quiet! :rofl2:

Just some mucking around tonight. Checked the naniwa with a pencil grid and lap. Mucked around with the sharpie and some swooping and rolling x strokes. I think I'm very close to being there.

The last mm or so of the toe needs a little more love but I'm pretty happy with the rest.

I took the Dixie to the coticule with a light slurry at this stage. I got a nice hazy bevel on slurry and went to water to polish. Discovered I needed a bit more work on the coticule
Slurry to get rid of the 1k scratches as i polished the bevel. i am find the loupe useful and informative ATM :)

For some odd reason, perhaps in the spirit of the 1k shave thread, I took the Dixie to my face for a test run.

Sharp enough to shave WTG no problem but a roughness to the edge that my shave ready straights don't have. A little more feedback from the alum block but not a terrible result. My technique is pretty rusty though hahaha!

I'll go back to the 1k next honing session and see if I can get the toe where I want it and experiment with the coti again.

The swooshing stroke glen mentions is great for the toe and heel on those painful blades. Stick with each stage till you've nailed it. You cant make real progress until the previous stage is fulfilled. Cotis can be a pain to learn on as there are many ways to use them and they aren't rated so yours may have a lower rating than others so you may not get a excellent edge off your stone, just average. Do you have anything to compare it too to help you evaluate where your at. If not I would advise that's a place to start

Thanks for the input Eddy.

I am aware of the issues around the coti for the beginner who hasn't got experience to guide them. This is part of what got me to invest in the nani 1k in the first place.

I have a Solingen razor that I honed as a one stone effort following the dilucot technique back when I was using my straights previously. The razor is a nice shaver now but I remember many hours on the stone taking 2 steps forwards and one step back many times before I got it right. The guys from the old coticule.be board identified my stone as a "La Grise" and suggested it as a fine but somewhat slow finisher.

I have more or less decided I will add a nani 3k and 8k but I am trying to leave these acquisitions until the New Year. Partly for financial reasons but mostly so I spend enough time geting to learn about the 1k bevel set. I am thinking I will procure a DMT 325 soon for lapping purpose and also in light of having a few razors that will be onerous to start on the 1k. I can get one at Carbatec and it looks like a fairly good price when you factor the shipping costs involved. Is 325 DMT to 1k a doable jump? I think I will have the bevel on the Dixie nailed in my next honing session or two and it seems further learning on it will be wearing it down to no good purpose.

The easiest way I have found for bevel setting was after watching the bread knifing vid by glen. Hold the razor like a knife with the spine off the hone and set the bevel then lower a bit set again and so forth till flat on the hone. Is much quicker and saves ware on the spine also. Check it out on youtube as said its the bread knifing vid. The dmt will leave deep scratched and trust me take a while to get out. Try to avoid if possible. The 1k is really quite quick if you use the right method. That said the dmt is a great lapping stone and I wouldn't be without it. Very affordable from carbatec as this is where I got mine. For around $10 they will mail it signed for. Im in the same position trying to learn a coti I just brought. So much easier on synthetics.